After trapping himself in an alternate universe, a Mage and his split consciousness must commune with the common realm to defeat the dark forces that threaten their existence.
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After trapping himself in an alternate universe, a Mage and his split consciousness must commune with the common realm to defeat the dark forces that threaten their existence.
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The split consciousness part is intriguing, however, is it necessary for the logline?
“Dark forces” is too vague. Is it a demon? An opposing Mage? How do they threaten the Mage’s existence?
Example, using elements from your story: When a Mage is split from his consciousness in an alternate universe, he must communicate with his original universe to regain his powers and destroy the demon army all universes.?(~30 words)
“It?s a fair guess that he would have to regain his powers”. I didn’t put that because that’s what I thought the story was about; I was just making up my own plot to give a n example.
“After trapping himself in an alternate universe, a Mage and his split consciousness must commune with his new pupil in the common realm to put an end to their King?s nefarious reign.”?(32 words)
My point, however, was that you don’t paint the split conciousness as an obstacle or a goal. So as you have it now I suggest you either change it in the logline to reflect the obstacle it presents, or what specific role it plays in the story, or remove it from the logline. Because if you were to remove it from the logline now, it would change relatively nothing at all.
You have a pretty good version, you give your character a goal, and what he’s doing to achieve it. (On another note, I suggest you consider making your character either a female or a person of color to add more diversity to the genre.(assuming it is a white male as of now)) However, since you mention the antagonist, I suggest possibly adding in a specific goal the villain has, to increase the stakes in the logline.
Also, just a thought, but consider making the villain be the one who traps the Mage in the alternate universe.
Example(again me just making stuff up for this):?When the corrupt king traps him in an alternate universe, a Mage must?control his separated consciousness?in order to get his pupil’s help to return to stop the king.?(~30 words)
Another example:
When a Mage is separated from his consciousness and imprisoned in an alternate universe, he must control his consciousness to get his pupil’s in order to return and stop the King. (31 words)
Again, I gave the split consciousness a vital reason to be in the logline, it is the tool he must use in order to return.
One last note, might add an interesting element to have the Mage depowered or weakened to put him in the situation of having to do things he normally might use his magic for.
If the Mage can only commune with the “common realm” ?(aka: ordinary world) via a disciple, then that would seem to make the pupil a pivotal, indispensable character. ?So why not just make the disciple the the protagonist?
And how did the king get access to this “alternative universe” that enables him to tap it for his “nefarious purposes”? ?Is his consciousness split, too?
And what are the king’s “nefarious purposes”. ?That’s broad and general; it can cover anything and everything. ? What is the king’s specific nefarious purpose that the Mage must defeat?
And why say Mage? ?Do you think it is safe to assume that a logline reader will automatically grasp that it’s another term for a magician? ?Why not just say magician in the logline, save the title for the script?
Cutting to the chase: ?a?hermit magician must defeat ?a wicked king. ?That’s as much of the story as I can figure out so far.
>>>the pupil would never be able to succeed without the help of the Mage, but the Mage could potentially succeed without the pupil.
Would Luke Skywalker have have been able to succeed without help from Obi-Wan and Yoda? ?Yet, he’s clearly the main character, the designated hero.
What is the demographic audience for your story? What age group will it more likely appeal to?? ?If the prime demographic is (the greatly desired) teen to late 20’s audience,?which character is more likely to appeal to them, the pupil or the magician?
>>>A villain with a single aim is kind of flat
Of course, it’s a plus when the antagonist is a rich complex character. ?But does that mean he must have multiple objective goals to be one?
And conversely, by your logic, would you also say that a protagonist with a single aim (aka: objective goal) is kind of flat? Ergo, the hermit magician is a flat character because his only aim is to defeat the king, restore peace? Maybe the magician needs to pursue multiple objective goals, too?
Can you point to three commercially and/or critically successful movies in a similar genre as yours where the villain has multiple objective goals.
In a race against time, a wizard, trapped in an alternate dimension, must train two in his place to defeat a wicked king hell-bent on amassing an inter-dimensional army.
(31 words).
I think for the logline, using one specific goal the Mage wishes to stop is best. A character’s goal doesn’t really dictate whether or not they are interesting/3 dimensional on it’s own. ?Perhaps, make one goal the one which the MC focuses on, and then another is a goal which is completed, making the villain win while still being defeated. (Which opens it up sequels/spin-offs)
“>>>the pupil would never be able to succeed without the help of the Mage, but the Mage could potentially succeed without the pupil.Would Luke Skywalker have have been able to succeed without help from Obi-Wan and Yoda? ?Yet, he?s clearly the main character, the designated hero.”
The fact is, there are already so many stories which focus on a young person underdog overcoming a great empire. (Often using the “Mighty Whitey” trope where a white(usually male) has to learn another culture’s ways and then becomes better at ?the culture than they are.) Using an experienced protagonist(A common occurence in the Urban Fantasy sub-genre) gives a different take.
“In a race against time, a wizard, trapped in an alternate dimension, must train two in his place to defeat a wicked king hell-bent on amassing an inter-dimensional army.”
Hmm. I like it. I think the race against time part could be cut, maybe change it a little to imply that it’s a race against time.
Suggestion: A wizard trapped in an alternate dimension must train two pupils in order to stop a wicked king before he can amass an inter-dimensional army. (~25 words)
I added in ‘before’ instead of ‘race against time’ because it implies the same. The wording, though, makes it seem like the two pupils are more of the MC than the mage. So I have another.
Suggestion:?A wizard trapped in another dimension must contact his pupils across dimensions in order to return home so he can stop a wicked king before he amasses an inter-dimensional army.?(~30 words)
One last one, trying to tie in his split consciousness again:?A wizard separated from his consciousness in an alternate dimension must contact his two pupils in order to return home to stop a wicked king before he amasses an inter-dimensional army.?(~32 words)
And besides, there?is?an audience for stories about adults. Not all adults want to watch/read about a young child using magic better than the adults who have studied it much longer. (Especially that dreadful ‘Chosen One’ nonsense.)
I suggest?The Dresden Files(both books and TV show)?by Jim Butcher, and?The Libriomancer series by Jim C. Hines. Both are excellent Urban Fantasy book series, and there’s a whole lot more featuring female protagonists.
FWIW: ?the aspect to your story that hooked my attention, that I think is more interesting then all the other bells and whistles, is the idea of “split consciousness”. ? That intrigues me.. ?But it seems to have gotten lost in subsequent iterations.
>>There?s far more to ruling the world than the title of ?world leader.?
Yep, ?so what is a specific alternative objective goal the antagonist in this story is pursuing? ?To what use is he going to put his inter-dimensional army? ?What’s the threat, the jeopardy entailed in amassing the army that requires the wizard to respond? What’s at stake?
And again, ?please cite 3 examples to support your claim, 3 movies where the antagonist has multiple objective goals.
And if you believe the antagonist can have multiple objective goals, why can’t the protagonist, as well?
“That?s not the issue. ?The issue is: what is the audience for this story, a fantasy, with a middle-aged (or older) protagonist? ? And: ?will the story and the protagonist appeal to that target audience? (No producer, no movie studio is going to buy a script that will require an investment of 10?s of millions of dollars to make until they get answers to those questions. ?Answers they like. )
Comparing apples to oranges. ?Neither a feature film nor series (yet, AFAIK)”
I suppose he won’t know until he tries, yes? And if no producer or movie studio likes it, he can change it. And anyway, he never actually specified the age. It could be a character in his mid to late 20s. Early 30s. Someone adept at magic and starts teaching while’s he still fairly young. He knows his story, and as he said, his target audience.
I wasn’t trying to use the books to prove that there’s an audience for older protagonist in television. I was simply comparing that there’s an audience for fantasy works with experienced protagonists. But anyway, if a person likes that type of book, then they are likely to at least check out a television show/film that is similar. So different mediums, but similar audiences. The comparison isn’t quite what you say.( I can’t think of anything though, Maybe comparing different colored apples?)
As for the TV show, I was simply saying that I liked it. And, it should’ve done well because it had a built-in fan base, but the writers chose to make changes from the source material that turned that audience away.
While short lived, “Constantine” was a popular show, and fans are still clamoring for it’s return, especially after his turn on “Arrow”. Everyone involved admits that NBC was simply the wrong network. And it aired on Fridays, the death slot.
Besides, he is presenting something seemingly different from the works I mentioned anyway. ?He is presenting (presumably more of an epic fantasy) something similar to established works, a story with a magic user having to take on a king and his army, but also being just different enough in that the protagonist is instead experienced rather than a young person having to first learn the magic, and then have enough time to win.
Castler Media:
Thank you for clarifying your intentions and expectations. ? May your story? do well in Asian markets. I evaluate loglines in terms of the US market, the one I am most familiar with.? And it is a different market.
In turn, I wold like to clarify that I’m not one to cleave to a dramatic precept just because “that is the way it has always been done” or because self-anointed? gurus say so. ? For me, an appeal to tradition or authority is a good reason to question a rule.? Which I have certainly done with the “one objective goal per story” rule.? I have concluded there are sound psychological reasons that explain its? universality.? It works.
DPG:
I have thought of an example that uses older characters in a fantasy series. “Game of Thrones”, it does not focus on a teen/child protagonist, and yet it has become wildly popular. In fact, because of that popularity, there are networks looking for the next “Game of Thrones”. While this story is different, it does have the adult aspect to epic fantasy that networks are now searching for.
Anyway, “Game of Thrones” is what “The Dresden Files” could have been. Compared to the latter, the show is much more faithful to it’s source material, thus carrying the book audience over, and also quickly picking up more.
Also, I think that since the Dresden television show “tripled” book sales, if a new show/film were to come out that was faithful enough to the source material, it could be quite the success.
But alas, rather than a staff-wielding wizard detective in Chicago who talks to a skull, we got a hockey stick-wielding detective who talks to a guy who comes out of a skull.
One last note: I think I like my different colored apples comparison. If studios thought that books(and other media) were “comparing apples to oranges” ?to film, they wouldn’t consider adaptations a safe bet for new films/series. While instead ?they are all stories, just presented in different ways.
Dkpough1:
Okay, “Game of Thrones”.? And what precipitates and drives? the story line?? A civil war, adults engaged in a never, ever-ending struggle for power. Oh, how trite, how banal!? And it also happens to be an age old, universal conflict.
The dramatic premise of “Game of Thrones” was, indeed, pre-sold as a successful book anthology so I acknowledge the apples and oranges analogy in that respect.? However, I’m not aware the premise for? Castler Media’s logline has that marketing advantage. Has it already proven itself to be commercially viable in the form of a book?
Or a graphic novel?? I know a screenwriter whose marketing strategy involved hiring someone to adapt his script about a crew of? superheros? into a graphic novel.? When producers saw the visual, they bought his script for a high six-figure number.? The screenwriter (and producers) aim is to establish another franchise.
Franchise potential– that’s what Hollyweird is looking for in fantasy and scifi stories. And I think Castler Media’s story, with some re-engineering, could be a candidate for a franchise.? But it’s his story and he seems to have already decided on his marketing strategy.
fwiw
“Okay, ?Game of Thrones?.? And what precipitates and drives? the story line?? A civil war, adults engaged in a never, ever-ending struggle for power. Oh, how trite, how banal!? And it also happens to be an age old, universal conflict.”
Studios are looking for things similar, familiar, or just plain done before to play on the nostalgia factor and increase viewership. So, you pointing out the lack of originality is odd?because earlier you suggested Castler Media change the story to be just like previous ones, i.e, being trite and banal.??And, as I said before, Castler Media’s premise is actually pretty great in taking used concepts but changing it to be something different. While not a civil war, the Mage wants to overthrow the King. The evil king who is trying to make a huge, unstoppable army. It paints the Mage, while he has his magic, in an underdog role. Will the people of the kingdom support the Mage trying to kill their king, or the King who has ruled them for however long? And what about the army? The odds seem stacked against the Mage, but rather than the usual ‘young boy meets old, wise master of the arts and learns the arts so well that he is able to defy all odds and defeat his enemy’, Castler Media has an established character who has to find a way to use his skills, and his resources in order to defeat a threat.
It seems to me like his story as is could easily be made into a franchise. After the Mage’s story, there could be sequels, he could then spin-off the tales of the pupils. He could go back and tell the story of the Mage’s beginnings. Or maybe there’s another supporting character to spin-off.
So, rather than using pre-existing material, Castler Media’s premise is using a similar feel to established stories, while also separating itself and being different.(unless it actually is based on an existing property.)
“I should have punctuated it with an emoticon: I was being facetious in a call back to something Castler Media posted earlier.” Ah. Yes, I did not pick up on the tone. It was quite subtle. And again, odd, because you seemed to be changing direction from your position.
Castler Media: What role exactly does the split consciousness play? Is it a tool, an obstacle, a goal, another character even? Some combination? Perhaps if you define it for us we will be able to work it into our suggestions in the capacity you’re using it in your story.
Again, my only problem with it in the original logline was that it seemed to be just thrown in. Like so:
The original: “After trapping himself in an alternate universe, a Mage and his split consciousness must commune with the common realm to defeat the dark forces that threaten their existence.”
Revised:?After trapping himself in an alternate universe, a Mage?and his split consciousness?must commune with the common realm to defeat the dark forces that threaten their existence.
It literally adds nothing but an intrigue factor. Unlike using it as an obstacle: …a Mage must?find?his separated consciousness in order to…
or tool:
…a Mage must?use?his split consciousness in order to…
goal:… a Mage must defeat the King in order to reunite with his consciousness.
If it is a character, I suppose the way you had originally would work. Though maybe consider saying: …a Mage and his Consciousness… which implies ‘split’ but establishes it is a character on its own.
I also still think you should consider making the consciousness linked to his magic, and thus when they are separated it weakens/completely depowers the Mage. That way it creates more challenge.
To my way of thinking split consciousness could be to this story what the Force is to the Star Wars franchise. ?(Now just come up with a potent visual, a prop associated with split consciousness akin to role of the laser sword as the visual, the prop associated with the Force.)
Thank you for continuing on with this discussion, guys. It makes me think I really have something potentially great here. Hopefully I can meet that expectation
You’re both right. I need to tie in the “split consciousness” to the logline so it’s more than just intriguing, but integral.
In a sense, Dkpough1, his split consciousness is, all three. You might compare it to being a young clone of himself (a character). He needs to raise (a goal) and train it to be just as or more powerful as/than he is (tool).
Keep in mind, this is separate from the pupil in the common realm. He has to train them both, then they have to use their combined powers to open a portal that would release him from this alternate realm.
Now, I didn’t list this, because it gets complicated, but one of the primary obstacles is that the Mage and the alternate realm that they are in is tied to an artifact in the common realm. As long as they are within proximity to each other, their powers increase, and, as well, they can communicate more easily.
Back to the [clone]…just like with the artifact, their individual powers increase when they are in proximity to each other.
One common obstacle to be expected is frustration with the training, causing one or more to walk away. This would weaken the powers of each character, leaving each to work on their own, with their limited powers, to defeat their individual obstacles and villains.
I’m a bit frazzled with other things right now, so I’m not thinking clear enough to write up a satisfactory draft. I’ll return to this when I get a chance.
“In a sense, Dkpough1, his split consciousness is, all three. You might compare it to being a young clone of himself (a character). He needs to raise (a goal) and train it to be just as or more powerful as/than he is (tool).?Keep in mind, this is separate from the pupil in the common realm. He has to train them both, then they have to use their combined powers to open a portal that would release him from this alternate realm.”
-I think this part here is the part your logline should be about. Drop the evil king and paint the story as a powerful mage who is used to being able to do things with a wave of his hand, i.e alone, now having to rely on a young pupil and his ‘clone’. Maybe make him be arrogant and then learn to be humble.
“Now, I didn?t list this, because it gets complicated, but one of the primary obstacles is that the Mage and the alternate realm that they are in is tied to an artifact in the common realm. As long as they are within proximity to each other, their powers increase, and, as well, they can communicate more easily.”
-I need a little clarification. So are you referring to Mage and pupil in the common realm in this part? Because you go on to say that the clone and the Mage get stronger/weaker depending on their distance.
Suggestion:?A Mage, separated from his Consciousness and trapped in an alternate dimension, must communicate with his pupil in his original dimension so they can combine their power so he can return home.?(~32 words)
I’m not sure I like this because it doesn’t raise any stakes. Maybe you could try dropping the other pupil in the logline and then maybe focus on the King.
A Mage and his Consciousness must return to their original dimension so they can stop a corrupt King from amassing an inter-dimensional army so he can kill all of the mages in the world.?(~36 words.)
Just made up the kill mages part, but this one gives the Mage a reason to need to return.
One last try:?When a Mage finds out his corrupt King is amassing an inter-dimensional army, the Mage, split from his consciousness, must return to his dimension in order to stop him.?(29 words)
“Having stolen magical artifacts from an evil king, a Mage learns the truth behind their powers when he is trapped?and his consciousness split?in an alternate realm. Now he must engage a young pupil in the common realm and teach him the ways of advanced magic so, together, they can stop the king from amassing an army and ruling the five realms. (too many words)”
Yes, you’re right. I realized without the king there’s no stakes in one of my versions. Maybe use the split consciousness more ambiguously in the logline. You don’t?really give its purpose, but hint at it.
Just a suggestion for the actual film, because your story is complicated, focus less on the teaching part and use that time to flesh out the villain.?Why does the king want to rule the five realms?
I suggest making it more personal, honestly, rather than rule the realms. Something like, the artifact from the common realm is a prized possession to the king’s family, and then the arrogant, powerful Mage takes it for himself and hides it, something that is the king’s reminder to his lost family.
I mean honestly, how many fantasy films have “want to rule the world” villains? What if all he wants is to take back what his family has always guarded, something special to him. And he’s willing to do anything to get it back. Or something like that. Just a thought.
Because do we?really?need another rule the world villain?
Anyway, here’s another stab at it:
When a Mage is imprisoned in another realm for stealing an artifact and split from his consciousness, he must return to the common realm to stop the king from amassing an inter-dimensional army.?(~33 words)
“You made me realize something. I need to be more willing to write down more variations on the loglines, even when I know they?re not quite right.”
Yep, until you have everything the way you like it, you should think of alternatives. Even when you do have something you like, try to find something better.
Personally, the first story I ever thought of in sixth grade, I still haven’t finished it. It’s changed a dozen times and only now, 6 years later do I even have an idea I truly like, that I’m really excited to write. (I merged it with another one of my ideas, making it much more franchise-able. ?It’s actually set in the same universe as my first logline, the bio-terrorist one.)