A young Thomas Edison must win the top invention prize at the Worlds Fair to prove to his dream girl and her disapproving father that he is worthy before she marries a wealthy suitor.
nouveaustudiosLogliner
A young Thomas Edison must win the top invention prize at the Worlds Fair to prove to his dream girl and her disapproving father that he is worthy before she marries a wealthy suitor.
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I’ve done a lot of historical work on world’s fairs and teach this topic at a university. There are so many things one could do with this. The one thing that comes to mind is that beyond the situation you set up, you could also use the particular genre of this global fair to your advantage. For example, is there anything about the fact that many countries are present that you can incorporate? Can there be a reference to something that happened at a previous fair somewhere else?
Heya,
A very lively bunch of comments here…
Just my two cents — my first thought when reading the logline was of “Shakespeare In Love” – Not based on any real historical info.. BUT… The hook here is that the film is set during the first production of The Bard’s great romantic Opus… there’s irony splattered all over the concept, and very interesting to any Producer/ reader/ anyone in the Biz.
I’m not 100% with DPG here in regards to films of historical figures HAVING to be historically accurate with certain details (TBH – not many are, otherwise they’d be documentaries — See Inglorious Bastards/ The Untouchables/ JFK/ Steve Jobs (Aaron Sorkin’s in particular)/ Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter etc etc etc ) — what’s important is ?that the content is logical and believable in regards to context of the story you are presenting… My issue with your idea (well, the LOGLINE) is that it is too heavily focused on what I would deem to be the “B” story… the potential romance. I would suggest losing this aspect (even if you believe it’s Edison’s driving force) and instead focus on the competition, this to me is the “A” story — what stands in his way here, what is a young Edison’s potentially interesting flaw… Leave the B story for the film, and for any follow-up interest from those you hock the idea to.“Edison and another company did actually compete in a fierce competition during the 1893 Worlds Fair to light up the event.
The two inventions I had in mind involved the light bulb and telephone.”
I think if you re-write the logline with your above statement in mind you could glean more interest.
Anyways — It’s not terrible as is, and TBH I’d probs read it.
The other thing is in regards to feedback from folks on this site. It’s a wobbly tightrope one walks when providing feedback on loglines. A poorly structured logline can often lead to critical feedback of the IDEA ITSELF… which is understandable if the posted logline has logic or originality issues, or is not specific or clear enough… but I think it’s something to always be open to (critical feedback) as a logline with flaws usually is a big indicator to story flaws… not alawys so, but pretty frequently.
Best of luck:)
nouveaustudios, re:
>>I think the hook is already embedded into the logline based on the fact that it?s a fictional love story about Edison.
Here our pov’s diverge. ?I would see it as a hook if it was at least “inspired by” real events in Edison’s life. ?By, afik, it isn’t. ?If my pov is an outlier, if it turns out that a fictional love story is the irresistible hook for the people who really matter, ?who give the green light and write the checks, I’ll will gladly acknowledge you have proved me wrong. ? But until then, we’ll just have to agree that we disagree.?That horse is now officially flogged to death, and I see no point in beating it further.
>> Edison and another company did actually compete in a fierce competition during the 1893 Worlds Fair to light up the event.
I was fully aware of that when I posted last night — but that’s 22 years after Edision 1st married, ?seven years after he remarried. Edison was a middle aged man by then. ?To be sure, a?certain elasticity with chronology is tolerated?– necessary — for the sake of dramatic needs. I’m doing it myself for some events in the script I’m writing, adjusting ?the chronology by weeks and months in a few scenes. But not years, certainly not decades.
I have a 2nd question in my template about hooks: What is the hook in this story for you the writer? Why do you want to write a love story featuring Thomas Edison?
This is not germane to the structure of the ?logline or script of course. But I ask it in order to apprehend what there is about the story that you find so appealing, so compelling. ? What do you see in Thomas Edison that I apparently do not?
>>How would you write the logline? Thanks again!
Uh, it’s easier to throw stones then to build with them. 🙂
Seriously, I will have to think about it. ?Except to say that what I am groping for is a strong hook.
The hook for “Titanic” was the sinking. ?And how it sunk was factually correct in the movie. ?Cameron was attentive to every detail of the sinking, sunk tens of millions of dollars into the CGI and practical effects to make it look realistic. ?That’s what sold the movie — not the love story. ?The love story was a contrivance to delay what we were all waiting to see for ?an hour and a half. ?And to get us to care about the principals before he drowned them.
And, anyway, Cameron didn’t need no stinkin’ logline to promote his script. ?He already had established himself as a commercially successful writer and director. ?His name on the title page was a good-as-gold guarantee that his script would get read. ?Immediately.
The hook ?for “Shakespeare in Love” was the contrivance, that the play Shakespeare was struggling to write, an immortal love story in the making, was a mirror of a fictionalized love affair. (And many of the details were historically true: ?Shakespeare did perform for Elizabeth Regina. ?And Christopher Marlowe was his literary rival and he was killed in a tavern fight. There was a Globe theater. ?Et cetera. )
[I would also point out that Hollyweird has a weakness for stories, fact and fictional (current exhibit “A”: ?”La La Land”) about struggling young artists (writers, musicians, actors, etc.) ?But for struggling young inventors?]
And again, the two credited writers for “Shakespeare in Love” were well established in the industry. ?They had connections. ?They ?had agents. ?I seriously doubt if their script needed a stinkin’ logline.
But spec scripts by struggling writers ?with no credits, no connections, no agents DO NEED a logline.
And based upon everything I’ve studied, the most important factor needed to promote a spec script by an unknown, an outsider, is a strong hook.
And at the risk of flogging a horse to death, if the story you have in mind was at least “inspired” by real events (like Edison competing in a World’s Fair competition), then, yes, you could wrap a fictional love story around it like Cameron did with “Titanic”. ?But, AFIK, there is no such event in Edison’s life. Again, Cameron did have a real event around to wrap his love story.
And Marc Norman and ?Tom Stoppard did have a real play — “Romeo & Juliet” — around which to wrap the fictional love story.
What real event?– not just a character by the name of Thomas Alva Edison — what real event?and real invention do you have in mind around which to wrap a fictional love story? ?A real event in which Edison participated, a real invention he entered in a World’s Fair competition, ?which ?is also the central object/event of the story?
“Sure. But it?s up to the film studios/producers to decide if my screenplay is worthy, not people on a website dedicated to logline writing. It?s totally out of place. Not to mention the fact that you are judging a movie idea without even reading the script. Let me worry about the writing and the story. You can either help with my logline or not.”
I’m guessing you’ve never pitched a script before.? Getting in the front door is based on a logline.? The studio’s DO JUDGE a movie idea on a logline or pitch and not always the script.? If the idea or logline doesn’t peak there interest, it will simply be a pass.? Getting a reaction from people about your idea including websites like this is a great way to judge how your project will be precised.
If you want to be in the business, you will have to learn to take criticism and rejection.?? That’s just part of being a writer or anything in the movie business.? If you get into a meeting you have to be prepared to answer tough question like this or even simply ones.? Most like a the first thing a producer will as you from a pitch/logline like this, what makes this different from the one we are making or others that have been made?
Noveaustudios:
First of all, I want to commend you for fighting for your story. ?I respect that.
Over time, I have developed a template for evaluating loglines in detail. ?FWIW, here’s my detailed “data dump” on your logline:
Does it have a strong hook?
For a spec script, I consider this to be?the most important question to ask. ?A strong hook can overcome a multitude of flaws in the logline and plot. ?A weak hook can’t.
The protagonist’s problem is well-defined. But, IMHO, it’s not particularly original. Well, as the writer Willa Cather said, “There are only two or three human stories, and they go on repeating themselves as fiercely as if they had never happened.”
Which I take to mean that if you’re going to tell the same old story with an historical character, it strengthens the concept if it actually happened. My point is that truth is not only stranger than fiction, it’s also more compelling. Bottom line: It would be good hook if young Edison actually suffered this romantic predicament. But he didn’t.
How novel is the idea?
As noted, it’s not novel as a fictional story line. It could be novel if it were based upon an actual historical episode in Edison’s life.
Who is the protagonist?
Thomas Edison. Clearly defined, no problem there.
Does he have a character flaw?
None stated. I’m guessing he’s too young, doesn’t have the age or career success as the basis to assert his claim for her hand in marriage.
What is the inciting incident (II)?
Implicit that he’s rebuffed in his suit and faces a rival suitor. ? Good enough.
Does it create a true dilemma?
Not absolutely necessary but it strengthens a logline when obvious. ?If not obvious in the logline, it must be somewhere in the story proper.
I see a genuine predicament, but not a true dilemma. (A true dilemma is one where the protagonist is damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t. He’s trapped between two equally appealing or equally unappealing choices and he MUST choose one and only one.)
What becomes his objective goal (OG)?
Clearly defined: win the invention prize so as to win her father’s approval.
Who is the antagonist?
The father. And there’s a rival suitor. And I presume there are serious rivals at the World’s Fair. He should face credible competition; his entry shouldn’t be a slam dunk. Winning the prize should be in doubt.
Are there are obvious stakes?
Obvious and almost sufficient: to win the hand of the woman he loves. I say almost because it might strengthen the dramatic tension if he also needed to win the prize to advance his career.
Is there a ticking clock?
Yes. There is an alternate suitor and a deadline for the contest at the fair.
What is his character strength or defining characteristic?
None specified. But we would know enough about Edison to know he’s ambitious, tireless, inventive.
Is there a clear causal link between the inciting incident (II) and the objective goal (OG)?
Implied. We know enough that Edison is an inventor so we can accept that this is his m.o. to overcome the father’s resistance, impress her and win her heart and hand.
Is the OG forced or voluntary?
The goal is voluntary.
What is the subjective need?
He wants love, like everyone else. (I presume the script would show this need for love in contrast, that is, how he has sacrificed love for years in pursuit of a career. It would also create a dilemma — hence amplify dramatic tension — if he he reaches a cross roads in his life where he must choose between winning her love or the winning prize — and he doesn’t seem able to win ?both. )?
Is there a unifying theme?
The triumph of persistent and true love, I guess
My take away:
As noted, I think that logline lacks a strong hook because the episode is not based upon ?or “inspired by” actual historical events, Edison’s real life romance with his 1st wife.
As noted, I have reservations about the liberties taken with Edison’s biography. This story has to compete with a film in pre-production about Edison’s fierce struggle with Tesla and Westinghouse over DC vs AC current. ?The stakes were enormous: incalculable billions of dollars in revenues and profits, the entire future of electrical production in the United States. ?
And it actually happened.
fwiw
Am I right in assuming?that you have a very personal investment in the success of this story? It’s good if you are passionate about your stories just remember why you are here in the first place.
I think the purpose of this site is to become better at distilling the essence of your story and if it doesn’t work it simply doesn’t work no matter how intently you want it to.
When I read this logline, and I say?this with all due respect, I just keep thinking : “Why Thomas Edison?”
I’m not saying that the story couldn’t work I’m just simply wondering.
So?It’s like “Shakespeare in love” but with Thomas Edison. Sure it could work but ask yourself :
*What difference does it make if it’s Thomas Edison?
*Why would anyone want to see that?
*What makes this story stands out in the myriad of similar concepts?
*What’s the hook?
From your logline I can’t see any hook worth mentioning?and you getting defensive and irritated that nobody understand the brilliance isn’t going to convince anyone. If you can answer?all the above mentioned points in your re-worked logline you can make people really become invested in the concepts however as it currently stands it’s severely lacking.
If you want praise and have everyone congratulating you on what a genius you are you’ve come to the wrong place.
Our?ideas are a dime a?dozen in a vast ocean of similar ideas. Accept it.
Ones you realize that you can really let go and hone your skill so that one day you might write that great piece.
Good luck. I really mean it.
Being helpful entails being honest. ??I call it as I see it.
(And I could be wrong — totally blind on this one. And if I am, if you prove me wrong, be sure to let me know so that I can be the 1st one to congratulate you on selling your script .)
I evaluate loglines by several criteria: ? ?1] Structure; ? 2] Hook; 3] Topic; ?4] Marketability.
Structure: fairly good. ?And while it is necessary for a logline to be well-structured, that by itself isn’t sufficient. ?Other factors come into play besides structure.
Hook: ? What is it? ?This is a big one for me. ?Other than sort of imitating the template of “Shakespeare in Love”, what makes this romance stand out from the herd? ?How does this story innovate rather than merely imitate? ?What’s the hook in the logline?
Topic: ?I would give it a passing grade if, IMHO, it were reasonably “inspired by true events”. ?But …
Marketability: ?To repeat, it’s inevitably going to be compared to “The Last Days of Night” which is already pre-production. ? Just saying.
fwiw
Nouveaustudios:
My takeaway is that the story you propose to tell is inevitably doing to be compared to “The Last Days of Night”. ? That’s an inconvenient truth.
And the primary question anyone who reads your script will ask is why is your story which plays loose and fancy free with fact is as good or better than “The Last Days of Night” which adheres fairly faithfully to actual historical events and personages. “The Last Days of Night” doesn’t need to improvise and embellish (much) because the truth is compelling enough.
What hook does your story have that’s equal to or better than the one for “The Last Days of Night”?
Just saying.
Nouveaustudios.
You should care what other people think, seeing as they are going to be your audience in the end. Point is, there is a film about the same character already in production and so a second one, based on fiction or truth, will likely have a hard time getting sold. All feedback can be useful if you CARE to study it.
On a side note. This is a community of members who help each other, if the help is not appreciated you are welcome to search elsewhere. I find your comments to DPG, our most prolific member who goes well and truly out of his way to HELP many of our members, inappropriate. You can disagree with someone’s opinion, but at the same time please refrain from adding such comments as “…then there?s no need to comment.” It’s petty and?comes across as derogatory towards a comment made to you in good faith.
>>>And I should care because?? I am not interested in writing a historical or faithful version of Edison?s life.
Then?don’t ?characterize it as “historical” when ?by your own statement it isn’t. ?Loglines should inform, not mislead.
You can certain liberties with ?historical characters, but stories loosely based on them have to ?reckon with inconvenient historical facts. ?In this case, an inconvenient fact is that the first major World’s Fair in the US ?worthy of the appellation was the Centennial Exposition of 1876. ?Which would make Edison almost 30 years old — hardly a “young man”. ?And another inconvenient fact was that he had been married since 1871 and by 1876 ?would have been a father. ?(And he met her when she was working in one of his labs.)
One factor “Shakespeare in Love” had in its favor is that there is so little known about Shakespeare; consequently, the screenwriters had a broad and empty canvas on which to paint a plot as suited their imaginations and dramatic purpose. ?In contrast, we know quite a bit about Edison which constrains any story that presumes to improvise on the man and the legend.
I think the more appropriate reference for the tack you wish to take is the smash hit musical “Hamilton”,?lyrics and book by Lin-Manuel Miranda. ?Yes, it takes creative liberties, but it stays fairly faithful to the chronology and the actual rivalries and conflicts Hamilton encountered. ?No synthesizing of an entirely fictional plot was necessary.
?
There’s already a film in the works about Edison, “The Last Days of Night”, ?adapted from the best-selling a book of the same name, a film that with a plot more faithful to historical events.