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Lucius PaisleyLogliner
Posted: January 27, 20152015-01-27T10:17:43+10:00 2015-01-27T10:17:43+10:00In: Public

When an earthquake infests an apartment complex with fast-breeding spiders, a young entomologist's plan to save the residents means forcing a war veteran survivalist from his home.

Toilet Spiders!

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    1. CraigDGriffiths Uberwriter
      2015-01-30T13:27:07+10:00Added an answer on January 30, 2015 at 1:27 pm

      Rewording may make the pace better. Is forcing one person from their home the main trust of the story or just one of the obstacles?

      What makes forcing this person out so hard? Why do you call it out specifically in your logline?

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    2. CraigDGriffiths Uberwriter
      2015-01-30T13:27:07+10:00Added an answer on January 30, 2015 at 1:27 pm

      Rewording may make the pace better. Is forcing one person from their home the main trust of the story or just one of the obstacles?

      What makes forcing this person out so hard? Why do you call it out specifically in your logline?

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    3. Lucius Paisley Logliner
      2015-01-30T16:39:23+10:00Added an answer on January 30, 2015 at 4:39 pm

      Rewording may make the pace better.? Suggestions?

      Is forcing one person from their home the main trust of the story or just one of the obstacles?? The main objective is to save the residents, which if the entomologist does not achieve this, his plan will not work. As such, it?s a pretty important obstacle.

      What makes forcing this person out so hard?? I think it?s pretty clear the entomologist can?t save the residents if one of them doesn?t want to leave.

      Why do you call it out specifically??? If the resident doesn?t leave, the plan won?t work, ergo ?can?t save the residents?.

      But as I said in the beginning, if you think rewording may make the pace better, then I am open to any and all suggestions?

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    4. Lucius Paisley Logliner
      2015-01-30T16:39:23+10:00Added an answer on January 30, 2015 at 4:39 pm

      Rewording may make the pace better.? Suggestions?

      Is forcing one person from their home the main trust of the story or just one of the obstacles?? The main objective is to save the residents, which if the entomologist does not achieve this, his plan will not work. As such, it?s a pretty important obstacle.

      What makes forcing this person out so hard?? I think it?s pretty clear the entomologist can?t save the residents if one of them doesn?t want to leave.

      Why do you call it out specifically??? If the resident doesn?t leave, the plan won?t work, ergo ?can?t save the residents?.

      But as I said in the beginning, if you think rewording may make the pace better, then I am open to any and all suggestions?

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    5. dpg Singularity
      2015-01-31T23:51:10+10:00Added an answer on January 31, 2015 at 11:51 pm

      What’s the genre?

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    6. dpg Singularity
      2015-01-31T23:51:10+10:00Added an answer on January 31, 2015 at 11:51 pm

      What’s the genre?

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    7. Lucius Paisley Logliner
      2015-02-01T00:59:12+10:00Added an answer on February 1, 2015 at 12:59 am

      “Coming of Age” / thriller

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    8. Lucius Paisley Logliner
      2015-02-01T00:59:12+10:00Added an answer on February 1, 2015 at 12:59 am

      “Coming of Age” / thriller

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    9. dpg Singularity
      2015-02-01T07:40:57+10:00Added an answer on February 1, 2015 at 7:40 am

      Coming of Age? He’s a precocious kid, has already gotten his degree in entomology while still only a teenager?

      (My understanding of the ‘coming of age’ genre is that it spans the teen years.)

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    10. dpg Singularity
      2015-02-01T07:40:57+10:00Added an answer on February 1, 2015 at 7:40 am

      Coming of Age? He’s a precocious kid, has already gotten his degree in entomology while still only a teenager?

      (My understanding of the ‘coming of age’ genre is that it spans the teen years.)

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    11. Lucius Paisley Logliner
      2015-02-01T08:40:39+10:00Added an answer on February 1, 2015 at 8:40 am

      Actually, he gets arrested at the end for practising entomology without a degree because there had been a lot of unlicensed entomology going on in the area and the police decided to put an end to it.

      Also, this other kid is stoned to death by a philatelist group for sending a letter while not being properly accredited and using stamps that were rightfully theirs.

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    12. Lucius Paisley Logliner
      2015-02-01T08:40:39+10:00Added an answer on February 1, 2015 at 8:40 am

      Actually, he gets arrested at the end for practising entomology without a degree because there had been a lot of unlicensed entomology going on in the area and the police decided to put an end to it.

      Also, this other kid is stoned to death by a philatelist group for sending a letter while not being properly accredited and using stamps that were rightfully theirs.

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    13. dpg Singularity
      2015-02-01T09:27:25+10:00Added an answer on February 1, 2015 at 9:27 am

      I know it takes a degree to call oneself an entomologist. Didn’t know it takes a license or that the cops would be involved in policing the profession. This is news. (I happen to know a premier entomologist in the US whose specialty is the order Araneae — spiders.)

      I’m grasping for a handle on the logline; I really don’t know what to make of it in so many ways.

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    14. dpg Singularity
      2015-02-01T09:27:25+10:00Added an answer on February 1, 2015 at 9:27 am

      I know it takes a degree to call oneself an entomologist. Didn’t know it takes a license or that the cops would be involved in policing the profession. This is news. (I happen to know a premier entomologist in the US whose specialty is the order Araneae — spiders.)

      I’m grasping for a handle on the logline; I really don’t know what to make of it in so many ways.

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    15. Lucius Paisley Logliner
      2015-02-01T09:43:35+10:00Added an answer on February 1, 2015 at 9:43 am

      The point I am making is the scientific interest itself is called ‘entomology’ even if you don’t have a degree in the subject.

      There is also no rogue philatelist group, that I know of, meting out justice over “unqualified” stamp purchasing.

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    16. Lucius Paisley Logliner
      2015-02-01T09:43:35+10:00Added an answer on February 1, 2015 at 9:43 am

      The point I am making is the scientific interest itself is called ‘entomology’ even if you don’t have a degree in the subject.

      There is also no rogue philatelist group, that I know of, meting out justice over “unqualified” stamp purchasing.

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    17. Richiev Singularity
      2015-02-01T16:58:10+10:00Added an answer on February 1, 2015 at 4:58 pm

      1: I am not sure the earthquake is needed in the logline since is just seems to be the setup.

      When an apartment complex is is infested with fast breeding spiders.
      —–
      2: Why is this apartment complex important to the lead character?

      When his arachnophobic mother’s apartment complex is infested with fast breeding spiders
      —–
      3: Fast breeding isn’t gripping.

      When his arachnophobic mother’s apartment complex is infested with deadly fast breeding spiders
      —–
      4: ‘Young’ is probably the worst way to describe a character since it tells us next to nothing about them.

      When his arachnophobic mother’s apartment complex is infested with deadly fast breeding spiders, a wanna-be entomologist must…
      —–
      Finally I am not seeing a written connection between forcing someone to move out and saving the complex. Will the spiders suddenly go away when the veteran moves out?

      Hope that helped, good luck with this!

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    18. Richiev Singularity
      2015-02-01T16:58:10+10:00Added an answer on February 1, 2015 at 4:58 pm

      1: I am not sure the earthquake is needed in the logline since is just seems to be the setup.

      When an apartment complex is is infested with fast breeding spiders.
      —–
      2: Why is this apartment complex important to the lead character?

      When his arachnophobic mother’s apartment complex is infested with fast breeding spiders
      —–
      3: Fast breeding isn’t gripping.

      When his arachnophobic mother’s apartment complex is infested with deadly fast breeding spiders
      —–
      4: ‘Young’ is probably the worst way to describe a character since it tells us next to nothing about them.

      When his arachnophobic mother’s apartment complex is infested with deadly fast breeding spiders, a wanna-be entomologist must…
      —–
      Finally I am not seeing a written connection between forcing someone to move out and saving the complex. Will the spiders suddenly go away when the veteran moves out?

      Hope that helped, good luck with this!

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    19. Lucius Paisley Logliner
      2015-02-02T00:59:57+10:00Added an answer on February 2, 2015 at 12:59 am

      1: Perhaps.

      2: Homes are generally important to people.

      3: Spiders haven’t been “deadly” for decades. It’s just not believable anymore.

      Although, if you have any other suggestions for how to make the logline ‘gripping’, I’d be happy to hear them.

      4: ‘Wannabe’ tells people even less. Old? Young? Is he preparing to become an entomologist, or is he just very bad at it? More questions are asked than answered. And to make the character clearer, I’m going to get bogged down in a sentence long description of the little shit.

      Finally… : You’re not seeing a written connection between forcing somebody out of their home and saving the complex because there isn’t one. The goal is quite clear, to save the residents.

      As far as the spiders suddenly going away when the veteran moves out – most definitely, in a way.

      Unfortunately, none of the above suggestions apply to my story.

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    20. Lucius Paisley Logliner
      2015-02-02T00:59:57+10:00Added an answer on February 2, 2015 at 12:59 am

      1: Perhaps.

      2: Homes are generally important to people.

      3: Spiders haven’t been “deadly” for decades. It’s just not believable anymore.

      Although, if you have any other suggestions for how to make the logline ‘gripping’, I’d be happy to hear them.

      4: ‘Wannabe’ tells people even less. Old? Young? Is he preparing to become an entomologist, or is he just very bad at it? More questions are asked than answered. And to make the character clearer, I’m going to get bogged down in a sentence long description of the little shit.

      Finally… : You’re not seeing a written connection between forcing somebody out of their home and saving the complex because there isn’t one. The goal is quite clear, to save the residents.

      As far as the spiders suddenly going away when the veteran moves out – most definitely, in a way.

      Unfortunately, none of the above suggestions apply to my story.

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    21. Richiev Singularity
      2015-02-02T01:28:28+10:00Added an answer on February 2, 2015 at 1:28 am

      1 Earthquake would be an inciting incident, spiders infesting the complex would be an inciting incident. Having both in the logline gives the logline two. It seems the spiders infesting the complex what really get’s the story going not the earthquake.

      2: Yes homes are important but you didn’t even describe it as a home. you just said ‘an apartment complex’ giving us no connection or reason why it is important to the lead character… No stakes.

      3: I just say fast breeding isn’t gripping because I don’t see any danger in it. You tent the place and kill them.

      4: I used wanna-be because you said he didn’t have a degree in entomology.

      5: I don’t see how making someone move saves the complex, you said the spiders weren’t deadly so what is the danger to the residents.

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    22. Richiev Singularity
      2015-02-02T01:28:28+10:00Added an answer on February 2, 2015 at 1:28 am

      1 Earthquake would be an inciting incident, spiders infesting the complex would be an inciting incident. Having both in the logline gives the logline two. It seems the spiders infesting the complex what really get’s the story going not the earthquake.

      2: Yes homes are important but you didn’t even describe it as a home. you just said ‘an apartment complex’ giving us no connection or reason why it is important to the lead character… No stakes.

      3: I just say fast breeding isn’t gripping because I don’t see any danger in it. You tent the place and kill them.

      4: I used wanna-be because you said he didn’t have a degree in entomology.

      5: I don’t see how making someone move saves the complex, you said the spiders weren’t deadly so what is the danger to the residents.

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    23. dpg Singularity
      2015-02-02T12:58:07+10:00Added an answer on February 2, 2015 at 12:58 pm

      I concur with Richiev on all points.

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    24. dpg Singularity
      2015-02-02T12:58:07+10:00Added an answer on February 2, 2015 at 12:58 pm

      I concur with Richiev on all points.

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    25. Lucius Paisley Logliner
      2015-02-02T17:02:20+10:00Added an answer on February 2, 2015 at 5:02 pm

      1: Still, it’s only the difference of one word, however, I’ll concede if this makes room for further description.

      2: So, something like “when an apartment complex is infested with spider, etc… must to save his home” – connection made.

      3: How would you tent an apartment complex?

      Hmmm… I wonder if “fast-breeding flesh-eating spiders” could be considered overkill… oh well, if there’s room in the logline.

      4: Again, why does somebody need a degree to study something? Perhaps ‘amateur’ might be a good substitute since the implication of youth and lack of qualification are both covered by its definition.

      5: The plan requires the move before the plan can happen. The plan itself isn’t that important.

      Although… it probably should be. Plan could lead to a connection, could lead to the move, etc…

      I guess the connection between the kid and the war veteran needs to be mentioned.

      We know we need to get rid of the spiders, so…

      I guess if there’s a way to tie all that together, it would help greatly. Any suggestions on how to do that?

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    26. Lucius Paisley Logliner
      2015-02-02T17:02:20+10:00Added an answer on February 2, 2015 at 5:02 pm

      1: Still, it’s only the difference of one word, however, I’ll concede if this makes room for further description.

      2: So, something like “when an apartment complex is infested with spider, etc… must to save his home” – connection made.

      3: How would you tent an apartment complex?

      Hmmm… I wonder if “fast-breeding flesh-eating spiders” could be considered overkill… oh well, if there’s room in the logline.

      4: Again, why does somebody need a degree to study something? Perhaps ‘amateur’ might be a good substitute since the implication of youth and lack of qualification are both covered by its definition.

      5: The plan requires the move before the plan can happen. The plan itself isn’t that important.

      Although… it probably should be. Plan could lead to a connection, could lead to the move, etc…

      I guess the connection between the kid and the war veteran needs to be mentioned.

      We know we need to get rid of the spiders, so…

      I guess if there’s a way to tie all that together, it would help greatly. Any suggestions on how to do that?

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    27. dpg Singularity
      2015-02-03T07:11:41+10:00Added an answer on February 3, 2015 at 7:11 am

      >>Again, why does somebody need a degree to study something?

      They don’t. But that’s not what the logline implies. “Entomologist” implies somebody with the credentials, a degree. If he doesn’t have it, he’s an amateur. I can study being a lawyer till doomsday. But if I can’t pass the bar exam, I can’t be officially recognized as a lawyer, nor legally practice as one. Professions have credentials, standards, requirements.

      >>The plan itself isn?t that important.

      Bummer. People didn’t queue up for hours outside the theater for “Jaws” primariliy to watch police chief Brody argue with the mayor and local businessmen, trying to overcome their denial that they had a shark problem (although for 1st hour of the movie, that’s what he did). They lined up and paid their money for the HOW, how Brody and the crew go after the shark.

      What I see entailed in your premise is a promise: that there’s going to dramatic showdown between the amateur entomologist and the spiders. That’s the expectation people will be paying to see. Not the protagonist persuading a veteran to vacate his apartment (although that can be a complication).

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    28. dpg Singularity
      2015-02-03T07:11:41+10:00Added an answer on February 3, 2015 at 7:11 am

      >>Again, why does somebody need a degree to study something?

      They don’t. But that’s not what the logline implies. “Entomologist” implies somebody with the credentials, a degree. If he doesn’t have it, he’s an amateur. I can study being a lawyer till doomsday. But if I can’t pass the bar exam, I can’t be officially recognized as a lawyer, nor legally practice as one. Professions have credentials, standards, requirements.

      >>The plan itself isn?t that important.

      Bummer. People didn’t queue up for hours outside the theater for “Jaws” primariliy to watch police chief Brody argue with the mayor and local businessmen, trying to overcome their denial that they had a shark problem (although for 1st hour of the movie, that’s what he did). They lined up and paid their money for the HOW, how Brody and the crew go after the shark.

      What I see entailed in your premise is a promise: that there’s going to dramatic showdown between the amateur entomologist and the spiders. That’s the expectation people will be paying to see. Not the protagonist persuading a veteran to vacate his apartment (although that can be a complication).

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    29. Lucius Paisley Logliner
      2015-02-03T08:52:20+10:00Added an answer on February 3, 2015 at 8:52 am

      “What I see entailed in your premise is a promise: that there?s going to dramatic showdown between the amateur entomologist and the spiders.”

      Perfect. As long as that’s clear, I can now dedicate myself to making the rest of the logline work.

      “”Entomologist? implies somebody with the credentials, a degree.”

      Since it seems people have been getting stuck on that, ‘amateur’ is going to have to work. My point was that even people in college studying chemistry can go about calling themselves chemists before they have their degree. It’s a thing.

      However, what I’m left with now is making it clear that the boy is 11-12 years old without saying ‘child entomologist’ (even without the degree) or something similar, since ‘child’ says nothing about the character, even if there is a implication (gained through bias, I must admit) that a child interested and/or practising science could be a lonely, geeky/nerdy, child.

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    30. Lucius Paisley Logliner
      2015-02-03T08:52:20+10:00Added an answer on February 3, 2015 at 8:52 am

      “What I see entailed in your premise is a promise: that there?s going to dramatic showdown between the amateur entomologist and the spiders.”

      Perfect. As long as that’s clear, I can now dedicate myself to making the rest of the logline work.

      “”Entomologist? implies somebody with the credentials, a degree.”

      Since it seems people have been getting stuck on that, ‘amateur’ is going to have to work. My point was that even people in college studying chemistry can go about calling themselves chemists before they have their degree. It’s a thing.

      However, what I’m left with now is making it clear that the boy is 11-12 years old without saying ‘child entomologist’ (even without the degree) or something similar, since ‘child’ says nothing about the character, even if there is a implication (gained through bias, I must admit) that a child interested and/or practising science could be a lonely, geeky/nerdy, child.

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    31. Tony Edward Samurai
      2015-02-03T13:46:36+10:00Added an answer on February 3, 2015 at 1:46 pm

      When an apartment block is overcome by huge deadly spiders the tenants turn the only person who has a chance to save them ? an geeky 11 year entomology enthusiast

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    32. Tony Edward Samurai
      2015-02-03T13:46:36+10:00Added an answer on February 3, 2015 at 1:46 pm

      When an apartment block is overcome by huge deadly spiders the tenants turn the only person who has a chance to save them ? an geeky 11 year entomology enthusiast

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    33. Lucius Paisley Logliner
      2015-02-03T14:21:00+10:00Added an answer on February 3, 2015 at 2:21 pm

      ENTHUSIAST! Perfect. Now I can pretty much get rid of “entomologist” entirely.

      A main character needs to take charge, they can’t wait for people to suddenly go, “oh, this guy might have an idea…” There will be no ‘turning to’. Besides, there are always pest exterminators who are trained to take care of such things, so he wouldn’t be the ONLY person to have a chance to save them.

      And you’ve taken away the war veteran survivalist. Who is the kid going to try and bond with now?

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    34. Lucius Paisley Logliner
      2015-02-03T14:21:00+10:00Added an answer on February 3, 2015 at 2:21 pm

      ENTHUSIAST! Perfect. Now I can pretty much get rid of “entomologist” entirely.

      A main character needs to take charge, they can’t wait for people to suddenly go, “oh, this guy might have an idea…” There will be no ‘turning to’. Besides, there are always pest exterminators who are trained to take care of such things, so he wouldn’t be the ONLY person to have a chance to save them.

      And you’ve taken away the war veteran survivalist. Who is the kid going to try and bond with now?

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    35. Tony Edward Samurai
      2015-02-03T15:00:24+10:00Added an answer on February 3, 2015 at 3:00 pm

      I saw your main plot as what Blake Snyder describes as ‘monster in the house’…(there would be more tension if ALL tenants were trapped inside…more victims etc…) Maybe they could turn to an exterminator, but who then also falls victim to the eight legged freaks..? I don’t know.

      To be honest, my example was just how you could deal with the whole entomologist/ amateur/ no degree issue — the ‘hook’ imho, is not the fact that the hero ‘bonds’ with anyone — a great subplot/ ‘B’ story for sure, but the fact that the hero is an 11 year old geeky kid who’s into entomology… for the sake of describing the arch plot in the logline, the war veteran doesn’t require a mention — but that’s just from what I have gathered from your posts… He might be crucial to your story..? I don’t know.

      Anyway — best of luck with it.

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    36. Tony Edward Samurai
      2015-02-03T15:00:24+10:00Added an answer on February 3, 2015 at 3:00 pm

      I saw your main plot as what Blake Snyder describes as ‘monster in the house’…(there would be more tension if ALL tenants were trapped inside…more victims etc…) Maybe they could turn to an exterminator, but who then also falls victim to the eight legged freaks..? I don’t know.

      To be honest, my example was just how you could deal with the whole entomologist/ amateur/ no degree issue — the ‘hook’ imho, is not the fact that the hero ‘bonds’ with anyone — a great subplot/ ‘B’ story for sure, but the fact that the hero is an 11 year old geeky kid who’s into entomology… for the sake of describing the arch plot in the logline, the war veteran doesn’t require a mention — but that’s just from what I have gathered from your posts… He might be crucial to your story..? I don’t know.

      Anyway — best of luck with it.

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    37. Tony Edward Samurai
      2015-02-03T15:08:29+10:00Added an answer on February 3, 2015 at 3:08 pm

      …

      “…turn the only…” = turn to the only

      “…an geeky 11 year entomology…” = a geeky 11 year old entomology

      ;)..fwiw.

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    38. Tony Edward Samurai
      2015-02-03T15:08:29+10:00Added an answer on February 3, 2015 at 3:08 pm

      …

      “…turn the only…” = turn to the only

      “…an geeky 11 year entomology…” = a geeky 11 year old entomology

      ;)..fwiw.

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    39. Tony Edward Samurai
      2015-02-03T16:08:10+10:00Added an answer on February 3, 2015 at 4:08 pm

      If you are keen to keep the war veteran he needs to have a higher function other than just a buddy for the hero ? either it?s a double-hander and the kid and the veteran team up to kick some eight legged butt, or alternatively, the veteran is a hidden antagonist who is behind the infestation? (just an idea).

      Below is a shot at the buddy angle (and with such a teaming you would have an implication of a ?coming of age? type scenario?):

      An eleven year old entomology enthusiast and a ww2 veteran team up to save the residents of their apartment block from an infestation of man eating spiders.?

      As others have said, I can?t see the link/ stakes of the kid having to save the war veteran over anyone else? there is no mention of them being connected in any way (yet?) ? as in, are they related, are they best friends? Is he the kid?s mentor? What makes the veteran so special to the kid?

      I might be completely off with the whole ?monster in the house? angle? but that?s just what I see when I hear about spiders infesting an apartment block. If the spiders aren?t dangerous, then the implication from your logline is that the boys main struggle is to get the war veteran to LEAVE the apartment?How do you stretch that over 90 plus minutes?

      Don’t mean to bug ya. 😉

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    40. Tony Edward Samurai
      2015-02-03T16:08:10+10:00Added an answer on February 3, 2015 at 4:08 pm

      If you are keen to keep the war veteran he needs to have a higher function other than just a buddy for the hero ? either it?s a double-hander and the kid and the veteran team up to kick some eight legged butt, or alternatively, the veteran is a hidden antagonist who is behind the infestation? (just an idea).

      Below is a shot at the buddy angle (and with such a teaming you would have an implication of a ?coming of age? type scenario?):

      An eleven year old entomology enthusiast and a ww2 veteran team up to save the residents of their apartment block from an infestation of man eating spiders.?

      As others have said, I can?t see the link/ stakes of the kid having to save the war veteran over anyone else? there is no mention of them being connected in any way (yet?) ? as in, are they related, are they best friends? Is he the kid?s mentor? What makes the veteran so special to the kid?

      I might be completely off with the whole ?monster in the house? angle? but that?s just what I see when I hear about spiders infesting an apartment block. If the spiders aren?t dangerous, then the implication from your logline is that the boys main struggle is to get the war veteran to LEAVE the apartment?How do you stretch that over 90 plus minutes?

      Don’t mean to bug ya. 😉

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