Against the Fall
As he chronicles one tenacious man’s fight to survive after a nuclear holocaust decimates life on Earth, a dedicated and determined alien observer must decide whether to obey or defy orders to terminate humanity.
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As he chronicles one tenacious man’s fight to survive after a nuclear holocaust decimates life on Earth, a dedicated and determined alien observer must decide whether to obey or defy orders to terminate humanity.
Same thread for the story, different approach.
Inciting incident –
According to your last post the inciting incident is the destruction of Earth by man kind. This is not a good inciting incident as this takes place over many centuries as a result of many actions and events.
Where as an inciting incident needs to be a single event done to the main character by a force other than them selves.
Hero –
According to your last post “…one troubled survivor?” will be the main character one is implicit in the description no need to mention it.
Troubled is a generic none specific description that doesn’t describe a character flaw that will present an obstacle for the MC to achieve his goal. Almost all characters are troubled from Vito Corleone to Wayne Campbell question is, in what way is your character uniquely troubled that works best for this story?
Goal –
According to your last post the MC “…must convince them spare mankind and secure their future as a species?”
As a rule of thumb I normally say if I can’t describe the MC’s goal in less than three words it isn’t a good goal.
How will he convince a whole department of alien scientists? More importantly what will this look like? A camera will have to show this goal being achieved but how exactly?
Will he hold a summit and have lengthy discussions with the observers department heads? I just can’t see the climactic scene at the end of act 3 from this.
If he were to need to kill the alien leader who is an anti homo-sapien then the climactic scene will be just that. Otherwise to see a man try to convince a bunch of aliens that humans are good doesn’t sound cinematic, compelling or achievable in 110 minutes with a camera.
Stakes –
According to your last post the stakes are that “…alien observers are ordered to halt a 100,000-year experiment?” i.e do one thing, then “…collect viable specimens?” do a second thing, then “…terraform the planet?” do a third thing.
Which is it that most impacts the main character? Which will be his motivation?
Because there are several actions the aliens are ordered to take the plot is unclear because it isn’t explained what exactly the MC will be doing in the story.
When mankind destroys their planet (main event), alien observers are ordered to halt a 100,000-year experiment they have been running, collect viable specimens from the human survivors and terraform the planet (stakes), one troubled survivor (hero) must convince them spare mankind and secure their future as a species (what he must do).
Thanks, no feedback is bad and straightforward is good.
There appears to be a few fundamental problems with this concept. Fundamental problems such as these that are not resolved are often indicative of faulty concepts.
Please forgive my candidness (few appreciate strait forward feedback).
The first and most glaring problem is the mix of plots –
You seam to have one plot; guy fights aliens to save humanity and another plot guy saves girl.
First and foremost decide which plot this story should be and structure the logline to that.
The second is that you are trying to re tell the story from a book –
If you decide to adapt a book to screen you will need to make any necessary changes required for screen, this doesn’t seam to be the case here as you keep referring back to the original novel.
The third problem is the basic structure of a logline –
Loglines are tools we use to either convey a plot for pitching purposes or aid in the structuring of a plot for writing purposes they also help us identify flawed concepts that are not worth pursuing.
There are subtle differences between the types of log lines according to function but the basic structure is the same.
Here is a link to a page that explains this basic structure:
https://loglines.org/howto/
In short try to prioritise clarity in a logline by specifying a main character with a flaw that experiences a significant event that causes him or her to need to take action to achieve a goal. Most of these elements do not exist in many of the iterations of your logline.
Your revised logline leaves me confused as to where your premise is going; that is, what the plot is. And the primary purpose of a logline should be to succinctly and clearly outline the plot, the “A” story.
And what is the “A” story? An X guy having to rescue his Y love interest from a ruthless Z? How unique, how different, how attention grabbing is that? It’s been there, done that in countless movies.
The hook of your story is that an alien experiment called human history is about to end with the extinction of the experimental rats, the human race. That’s the “A” story. Every other story thread should be subordinate and related to that “A” story — and not mentioned in the logline.
fwiw
I like your thought process, I have been playing with the idea that they do in fact convince them to leave…after cleaning up the earth, or better yet they convince them to leave and let man figure out how to come back out of the chaos or even deposit on a habitable planet before they leave…have to toy with this.
So does the logline below capture what I am conveying?
An unwitting participant in an alien experiment must vanquish the ghosts of his past in order to save the woman he loves from a ruthless gang leader.
A story would be the man struggling with his fear of guns (accidentally killed brother while hunting) in a world where violence in now common. Saving the woman he has come to love.
B Story, follows the aliens, desire to terminating the experiment and going home.
Story’s converge when man challenges them what gives right to terminate the experiment and convinces to let man live on his on and evolve as you suggested.
IOW: they are engaged in a Pygmalion project — trying to create a species in the image of their own ideal…, or similar… or at least good enough.
Well, that seems to me that their objective reflects a character flaw, hubris, hamartia on a global and historic scale! And after millions of years of stupendous failure, they’re still in denial, still haven’t learned better.
It seems to me that what the aliens need to learn from their experiment is to stop tinkering with evolution, stop trying to create their image-ideal. They need to just let go, accept and respect homo sapiens for what we are — and aren’t. They need to step back into their own solar system and let us work out our own destiny instead of trying to make us live up to their expectations.
So it seems to me that a doable plot line might be that the aliens want to pull the plug on the experiment by pulling the plug on homo sapiens, maybe pulling the plug on all life on earth. And the objective goal for the main character is to persuade them not to pull the plug.
Not just persuade them not to pull the plug, the objective goal might be to to convince them to let go, let humans live, let evolution happen.
Or better yet, the MC could discover a fatal flaw in the design of their experiment that if exploited would enable humans to (finally) win their freedom, autonomy to work out their own density without meddling and tinkering from these “benign” but narcissistic aliens.
fwiw
For some reason can’t reply to you recent post. The motivation of the aliens is: they are longing for beings that can join them as equals. Think of them as shepherds/farmers maybe – they won’t “give” a race technology unless they attained a benchmark that the “Master” has set for the experiments.
Backstory, they have “reset” earth numerous times over the millennia…dinosaurs ruined their plan, ice age killed off another attempt, etc…they had hopes for this iteration as demonstrated by the good things: music, art, etc; however, man’s aggressive side resulted in wars and finally annihilation of the planet. The aliens know they are close and the anthropologist wants to reset; however, the militant wants to go home! It’s been 100,000 years after all (they are that old).
Another option: they’ve run out funding to continue the experiment. 🙂
Seriously, I think you have an interesting concept; otherwise I wouldn’t keep posting. But implicit in your theme seems to be a lack of faith in homo sapiens to ever get their [expletive] deleted together. Which is an arguable proposition, but is it an entertaining one? Will it sell tickets?
What is the alien stake in the experiment? What do they stand to gain or lose?
What motivates human experimentation with rats? Boredom, we’ve got nothing better to do? Mere sadism and nothing else?
We experiment with rats in order to benefit our own species. To learn more about ourselves. To test drugs on rats in order to discover if the drugs will cure our maladies (like cancer) and if the drug has no deleterious side effects.
IOW: we, as a species, have a stake in the experiments. We stand to gain or lose something. So, to repeat, what is the alien stakes in their experiment on humans? What are they hoping to get out of experimenting with us that will benefit them?
Experiment is coming to a halt because man has destroyed his world; they either have to terminate or reset humanity. Lots to play on there in the book – the man is only one of many potential to reseed earth based on his actions.
Alright, I think I may have nailed what I am trying to convey in a short, concise sentence:
An unwitting participant in an alien experiment must vanquish the ghosts of his past in order to save the woman he loves from a ruthless gang leader.
>>trying to get the results they want
So the experiment has failed to prove whatever it was trying to prove?
I’m not an alien — although some people wonder about my humanity — but I know something about statistics and I never forgotten what my professor said: one data point does not a statistic make. One data point proves or disproves nothing.
Notwithstanding, your premise seems to have the aliens throwing out billions of data points — the overwhelming proof of a failed experiment as evidenced by the aggregate total of human history, Instead they are going to assess success or failure on the basis of a single data point – whether one man can rise above his flaws (despite the fact that billions of data points haven’t).
It all comes down one roll of one die. If the aliens are so smart and so powerful as to manipulate human history for 100k years, how could they so irrational, so illogical, so utterly stupid as to throw out billions of data points? Why would they do that?
Sorry, the thematic logic of your premise just doesn’t add up for me. Others with advanced degrees in calculus and quantum physics may see it differently.
fwiw.
There are two threads, one is the experiment which is covert, the other is the man with the troubled past (he killed his brother in a hunting accident). He becomes the focal point of the experiment as it winds to an end. Can he rise above his past, who society has shaped him to be and against all odds save the woman he has come to love.
Background: It is 150 days after the world as we know it ends, and he has been forced out of the fallout shelter he had made his home due to lack of food. He saved the woman in question from the bad guys, and as they spends their days together he has come to love her. When she is captured, he must save her.
The aliens have two factions: anthropologists and militant. The experiment was growing humanity and over the 100000 years they have reset the population of earth numbers times trying to get the results they want. The militant faction is set on ending the experiment since man is bent of self-destruction.
The English poet John Milton wrote a ‘trifle’ epic poem called “Paradise Lost” on a similar theme, only the experiment was designed and run by God — not aliens.
Anyway, whatever the nuts and bolts of your plot, the overarching theme seems to hinge on the question: is homo sapiens worthy keeping alive.
WHY are the aliens pulling the plug on their experiment? In a properly designed experiment, a hypothesis is posed that the experiment will either prove or disapprove. So are they closing down the experiment because it has proved the hypothesis? Or disproved it? What is the operative hypothesis — the whole point of the experiment?
I think what I posted was unclear; that was the old logline (I have fixed the post)…the new one was at the top.
You make good points though which I am pondering.
This might be better, but leaves out much of the story:
“When the woman he loves is captured by a psychotic gang leader, a distressed man must overcome his troubled past if he hopes to save her.”
Hi Byron.
The way your logline is currently drafted implies that his discovery that he has five days to save humanity is the inciting incident. In my opinion this needs clarification as it is the event that starts off your story best to not make just another “shocking discovery” that is all too common in many loglines.
The fact that there is an experiment going on is interesting and adds to the story but I don’t think it is important for the logline perhaps best to reserve it for a treatment. Ultimately experiment or not the bad guys want to kill the good guys, aliens V humans and the plot is the MC will struggle to stop the aliens.
You describe a love story in your explanation but also a survival plot in your logline. Which is the main story in your script?
If it is the love story then meeting the girl is the inciting incident but if it is survival then the discovery would be the inciting incident.
“?young?” is a poor description for a MC best to leave it out as it is generic and imparts too little to justify it’s use same goes for “?shy and frightened..”. Better if you could find one or two words at most that nail the MC and imply what his flaw could be or defines it specifically if crucial.
Just a suggestion:
After a librarian wakes up on board an alien science ship he over hears plans to terminate the humane race in five days and must fight them to save humanity.
Hope this helps.
I like your last two versions of the logline, it let’s me think of “Riverworld”- Philip Jos? Farmer (1918-2009). For me it also has a Jack Vance (1916-2013) vibe – the king of fantasy
I modified you thoughts, yet as I slept on it and drove into work I realized it missed much of what the story is about. My protagonist is a survivor, yet has been alone since the bombs fell. He meets and falls in love with a young woman who is captured by a warlord. He must save her. In the background the alien experiment is coming to an end and he has been selected as a possible success candidate. So I took an attempt to make it say “What is it about?”
Who:
Shy, frightened young man
Want:
To rescue his girlfriend, and prove he is the result the aliens have been looking for.
Obstacle:
The ruthless warlord and the experiment coming to an end.
I was so tempted to leave the post-apocalyptic part in, but the more I thought about it the more I saw your point. You don’t have to give away all of the story in the logline, just as you said – sell the sizzle.
Changed the character flaw to frightened, rather than troubled. Kept him as a young man. Changed to what’s left of humanity to give a glimpse that something tragic has happened without spilling the beans.
Modified the time frame to “save the world”, while the story takes place over 15 days…this will likely shorten as I work on the treatment, I can modify in the logline if it needs to be less. The experiment spans many millennia.
The interesting thing is, I have another book I wrote that the logline would be much easier to write…I already have it running through my head based on what I have learned from this dialog.
Wow, I would think that you read my book that this is based on with what you wrote there. I think you got the gist quite well. Let me mull that over a bit.
How about something like:
A shy and troubled man discovers that he, and he alone, has XX hours to save humanity from extermination before aliens from another galaxy shut down their 6,000 year experiment on the human race
A logline is sales tool and what it should sell is the sizzle, not the steak. My version is my take on what I understand to be the sizzle of your concept.
Tweak the time left on the ticking clock (24 hours, 48… 72… (That he’s is a college student and it’s a post-apocalyptic world, yada-yada may be central to the story — but I don’t see them as central to the logline. (More important than his status as a student is his character flaw. That he’s a college student may implicitly but not explicitly enhance dramatic tension, raise suspense as to whether he’s up to the task.)
Final thought: have you considered making the protagonist female? Hollyweird seems to be waking up to the realization that a strong female character can sell tickets for action and sci-fi films. Particularly if the female character appeals to the Young Adult demographic. In which case, I would suggest something like:
“A shy and and troubled teenage girl discovers that she, and she alone, has XX hours….”
fwiw
In a post-apocalyptic world
>>Again post-apocalyptic? says it all (took your advice)
an average college student leaves his bomb shelter
>> Add more on the WHO
and finds himself in a race against time
>>Good. A ticking clock. (Obviously kept this)
to save what remains of humanity from extermination
>> Added what he must do, demonstrate worth — will he succeed and save all of humanity, just himself, or no one. This is what I ultimately want to convey.
by an alien race who experiment on humans like rats in a maze.
>>mysterious entity? ? Yahweh? Vishnu? Aliens? ET? Once again, rather vague. And mysterious doesn?t necessarily imply that it?s malevolent, destructive (put back the rats in a maze, and the alien experiment lends to the malevolence.)
>>>Civilization has fallen and one survivor of the apocalypse
In a post-apocalyptic world, one survivor… Again “post-apocalyptic” says it all
>>”mysterious entity” — Yahweh? Vishnu? Aliens? ET? Once again, rather vague. And mysterious doesn’t necessarily imply that it’s malevolent, destructive — so why must the survivor convince it to spare homo sapiens? Alas, it’s perfectly plausible, and the prevailing cultural paranoia, that our species is all too capable of rendering itself extinct. No outside help is required.
What is implicit in you concept, so far as I understand it, is that basically homo sapiens lacks the agency to determine his own fate. We are at the mercy of some other agency/entity/species just as the fate of most other species on the planet are at the mercy of our whimsy (and folly).
Bummer. That’s a concept that will sell a lot of tickets and popcorn.
I find intriguing the notion that we who think we are running the show on this planet are actually running a maze like rats; we are test subject in a superior intelligence’s experiment. It confirms all my suspicions about life on planet earth, all my existential anxieties. But I frankly am dubious that the premise is marketable as far as I can discern it’s present design. Unless it’s a story about how human beings outwit this uber-intelligence, break out of the maze, fight for — not beg for — their freedom and survival. Is it?
Ah ha; that breakdown helps a lot. Thanks =)
I have updated…I think I am getting closer. I was unsure if your comment suggested changing the beginning or not. Due to the title, Against the Fall, I thought to use “Civilization has fallen and…”
Is my logic flawed there?
>>>Civilization has fallen
Translation: In a post-apocalyptic world, after a survivor discovers…
“Post-apocalyptic” may seem like a clich?. And it is. It’s also shorthand that quickly conveys the genre of the story. You gotta use every gimmick at hand to compress the essence of your concept into (ideally) no more than 30 words.
>> one survivor of the apocalypse discovers that humanity is nothing more than rats in a maze
How about: after one survivor discovers that humanity are experimental rats in alien maze, he must…
>>>race against time to prove humanity
Good. A ticking clock.
>> prove humanity is worth saving.
There are 2 problems with this as an objective goal:. It’s 1] vague and 2] abstract. Movies are first and foremost a visual medium. What does “worth saving” look like? What’s the visual on that? The material object, the prop that lets the audience know the protagonist has succeeded (or failed)?
In the post-apocalyptic world of Mad Max: Fury Road the objective goals of Max and Furiosa are material and visual. Furiosa wants to find The Green Place. Max Max wants to overthrow the tyrannical regime at The Citadel. But the Green Place turns out to be a muddy alkali waste. If you’ve seen the movie then images of what the Green Place looks like is flashing through your mind. As well as images of the Citadel and its population.
What images are supposed to flash into our minds in your story that ID the objective goal of your protagonist?
Changed it, not sure if it answers all the questions?also not sure if I should edit the original, or add as a new post – edited the original.
Thanks, I will work on how to incorporating your comments. This is my first attempt at a logline.
“Overcome his past” is vague, looks backward. So he’s discovered he’s a rat in a maze. What is he going to do about it? What is his specific objective goal looking — and moving– forward?
Who will try to stop him?
What are the stakes? What does he stand to gain if he succeeds, lose if he fails?