Surveillance Report
kbfilmworksSamurai
Clashing husband-and-wife inventors of a new process to design life-saving drugs need to settle their differences in time to fight off a global corporation using espionage tactics to bury an invention that will save millions of lives.
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Is the life saving process the husband and wife invented the same as or necessary for the technology the corporation wants to bury? Or is the “process” something else altogether different and unrelated to the “technology”?
Thanks dpg. The process is the technology – one and the same. And because you don’t feel it’s clear, I’m gonna do a quick edit.
I’ve been struggling to get both the relationship plot and the action plot into the logline.
It’s a suspense thriller in a similar vein to Alfred Hitchcock’s Notorious. So, the relationship plot is what makes the journey worthwhile and the action plot provides the framework to dramatize the relationship. Plus, trying to keep it relevant to the times by addressing a hot topic – greedy global corporations and why we like them just the way they are – despite all the criticism and condemnation.
Amidst a bitter divorce fight, husband and wife scientists must bury their hatchets to fight off a corporate conspiracy to block their invention that will save millions of lives.
Rather than “clashing”, why not ratchet up the conflict to bitterly divorcing (or even bitterly divorced) to complicate (which is to say make more interesting) the relationship they will need to build to fend off the conspiracy?
Thanks. I take your point. I say, clashing but they are actually scheming against each other – within the confines of office and home -which racks up the suspense. I only used ‘clashing’ to establish conflict without racking up the word count with additional detail.
The scheming – which involves deception and betrayal – allows the relationship plot elements to blend into the action plot – more deception and betrayal in the shape of espionage warfare waged between the husband and wife’s small start-up firm and the global corporation.
Are they scheming against each other? Or the corporation? Or both?
Made slight revisions to the previous post. But, yes, they are scheming against each other and have hired a corporate security agency to engage the corporation. So, yes, there’s a whole lotta deception and double-crossing going on. And I’m trying to think of post-70s spy thrillers that are driven purely by suspense and can’t seem to think of any. I’m a huge fan of Hitchcock and 70s thrillers like The Manchurian Candidate, Three Days of the Condor and The Parallax View.
>>driven purely by suspense
And paranoia.
But if I accurately remember 3 examples you cite, the protagonist in each case was being double-dealt –but wasn’t double-dealing. They were decent, honest people whofound themselves caught up in mysterious conspiracies they had to figure out.
Whatever, another point: since it’s a husband-wife team — does the story involve double-protagonists?
After thought: I presume you’ve seen “The Conversation” (1974). The protagonist, a surveillance expert, ironically becomes hopelessly ensnared in his own paranoia and deception.
Yep, I actually have the DVD of The Conversation – Gene Hackman and a bsby-faced Harrison Ford playing his only known role as a baddie. Don’t know how I left it off my list. The Conversation is supposedly inspired by Antonioni’s Blow-up – which I also like very much along with The Passenger.
Talking about double protagonists. dpg, are you familiar with Notorious? Are Ingrid Bergman and Cary Grant double protagonists in Notorious?
Hi kbfilmworks,
dpg is right by talking of paranoia.
There is something wrong in your story as you tell it to us
You have not two protagonists and an antagonist, you have three antagonists.
Two people cannot carry out the same fight while hating and fearing each other as strong as you say.
This flaw is over the top. It is not credible for the length of an entire movie.
Suspense don’t mean unrealistic.
There is only three possible outcomes to this situation :
1. They lose before your midpoint,
2. The husband and wife find in this ordeal the strength to be reconciled (it can be their first goal) AND THEN are able to fight the global corporation,
3. The global corporation manipulates one of the two who betrays the other, and it wins.
As you tell us your story, this is the last outcome that will happens. And it will be very difficult to maintain any suspense in your movie because everyone will understand this within the first five minutes.
There is no such situation in the movies you’re talking about: the heroes are sometimes disoriented, asking themselves about the other, but always strongly bound. This is true for Notorious and for all the other movies by Alfred Hitchcok too.
I think this is very important if you want your story comes to the end.
Good question.
I am inclined to see the Ingrid Bergman character as the protagonist because she carries more of the burden of the plot; that is, achieving the objective goal depends more on her than him.
And she pays a greater price: her happiness is sacrificed by being trapped in a love triangle between 2 men.
And it’s her life at risk, not Gary Grant’s character; she almost dies of uranium poisoning.
But I could be wrong. How do you see them?
Jean-Marie raises some interesting points, but I’m not inclined to agree on this one:
>Two people cannot carry out the same fight while hating and fearing each other as strong as you say.
Oh yes they can! That species of relationship conflict may not be in the movies cited in this thread. And it’s difficult to do right, but when it is done credibly, it ratchets up suspense and jeopardy in terms of the objective goal.
One point where I strongly agree with Jean-Marie is his observation that they cannot achieve the objective goal until they solve their relationship. That is absolutely correct, a sin qua non.
A good example is in DIE HARD :
“PLOT: New York City Police Department detective John McClane arrives in Los Angeles to reconcile with his estranged wife, Holly”… Gennaro
They are divorced and Holly even took her maiden name. She DON’T WANT to reconcile with him.
However they ARE JOINED TOGETHER from the beginning of the hostage taking.
IN THE BEGINNING, the supsense is based on the fact that McLane HAS UN UNKNOWN ALLY in the place, the risk she takes and how long it will last.
THEN it is based on the fact that the stated goal of the agressors is not the one they really want to achieve.
The plot (“A” story ) of “Die Hard” is: A cop must save his estranged wife and her fellow employees after they are taken hostage by ruthless terrorists.
Reconciling with the estranged wife is the “B” story. It’s what brings him to L.A., but it is not the inciting incident of the plot.
Hi Jean,
I really do appreciate your analysis but I?m just not sure you can generate this degree of analysis on the basis of the logline alone.
Also, I?m not sure that you?re taking into account recent changes in the logline.
Two people are having differences and they need to resolve them quickly before they can effectively battle a third party who is taking advantage of their conflict to push his own agenda ? burying the process. So the dramatic questions arising from the logline – for me – are – do they resolve their differences in time to confront the corporation and what is the final outcome?
Talking about antagonists and protagonists. Each plot line has its own antagonists and protagonists. The husband and wife conflict is the relationship plot which has its own protagonist and antagonist. The action plot also has a protagonist and antagonist. In fact, there?s more than one antagonist in the action plot.
Plus, parties in support of the protagonist later emerge to be antagonists. It?s not over-complicated ? it?s the nature of the spy genre which is all about deception and betrayal. There?s always plenty of switching sides and double-crossing.
Having said all that, I do find your 3 possible outcomes fascinating. I think number 2 comes closest but it?s too straight-forward. The story actually has a double-twist ending and involves the idea of ?Character is Fate in the denouement.
Talking about Notorious, I referred to that film in the context of my project being a suspense thriller like Notorious. And, the fact that Notorious has a strong relationship plot and my project cultivates the same purpose. I?m not trying to copy or borrow from any of those films. They are a source of inspiration.
Hi dpg,
I think Cary Grant and Bergman are double protagonists. In the relationship plot, I think Bergman is the antagonist because she makes life difficult for Grant, emotionally ? which for my money makes him the protagonist of that plotline.
And, in the action plot, I think Bergman is the protagonist and obviously the Nazis are the antagonists.
In my story, I think the wife is the antagonist in the relationship plot as she makes life difficult for the husband. In the action plot she is an antagonist up to the end of act two when she becomes a protagonist (differences having been resolved) who changes the most.
Now, I?ve heard tell that the protagonist has to be the protagonist in both action and relationship plots – with certain exceptions ? so here?s me aiming for the narrow gap in the pass!
I agree with both of you – Jean and dpg – that the husband and wife cannot reach their objective goal until they resolve their differences. And, I believe that?s pretty clear in the logline.
Just a thought: Have you guys seen Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy? And could any logline do justice to the plot convolutions and relationships?
Here’s my go: In late 60s Britain, a retired spymaster returns to action to hunt for a mole at the top of the secret service.
Kbfilmworks
Another movie where it is much debated over who is the protagonist is “Witness”. In the spec script, the Amish widow, Rachel, was clearly the focus, the protagonist. But the director, Peter Weir worked with the writers to refashion the story so that the Philadelphia detective, John Book, becomes the protagonist.
One measure of who gets to be tagged as the protagonist is the character who has the biggest arc of transformation.
>>> And could any logline do justice to the plot convolutions and relationships?
It was based upon a best-selling book by a best-selling author. And had already been adapted once as a critically acclaimed mini-TV series. No logline was necessary to create interest in the story; it had already been pre-sold in the marketplace.
Hi you two,
Sorry for the mess.
kbfilmworks, my analysis was not about the logline (wich is long but clear), but about what you told us about your protagonists.
What you say just above is clearer than what you told us before and we can see that your story is well structured and it becomes to be intersting.
Multiple belligerents conflicts are possible only in spy games -as in your story- but this needs SANGFROID, DISTANCE, and usually, the SLEEPING partner is not directly involved in the action.
As there is no place for clashing, deception or any sentiment, only very strong an intelligent people can play directly these games successfully, what means that they are able to settle their differences, at least for one time. In your story, it may be the two, or the only the one who will win against all the others … if Fate lets do.
Can you make me know some movies with people carrying out the same fight while hating and fearing each other as strong without settling their differences ?
And something for your logline (31words)
“Clashing husband-and-wife scientists need to settle their differences in time to fight off a global corporation using espionage tactics to bury their new invention that could save millions of lives”
Hi Jean, thinking about movies where people are pursuing a common cause while engaging in conflict among themselves. Well, it’s like we agreed – they have to resolve their differences – even if only temporarily – to overcome the common enemy. Off the top of my head, I’d say The Wild Bunch by Sam Peckinpah. The Gorch brothers – Lyle and Tector – were constantly disputing with the rest of the gang up until – I think – when Angel gets killed. And then they unite to take on General Mapache and his army.
Hi dpg, just read Karl Segers article about double protagonists. It can be tricky. Let’s just say if we can’t be good we can be lucky and end up making the right moves by intuition without understanding.
And I believe that rules are made to be broken — there are always exceptions. (But it helps to understand the rule you’re deliberately going to break. As they say in Latin, pecca fortitre, sin bravely.)
Hi kbfilmworks,
Hi dpg,
I agree with dpg.
1. “rules” are guidelines wich allow us to progress on a safe way, but great things are made over the lines.
I.E. “The Birds”:
– no hero
– no flaw
– no stake
– no conflict
– no antogonist
– no story …
… and a great movie!
In France, we say “pass? les bornes, y’a plus de limites”. It means literally “once the lines are crossed, there is no more limits”; wich is a pleonasm, but it means that liberty is beyond the lines
2. “it helps to understand the rule we?re deliberately going to break”, because
– it may allow us to understand the underlaying primary rules (I.E. “need to settle their differences in time to fight”)
– it may allow us to ‘sense’ what we’ll find beyond
If it is the case, it’s an amazing advanture. And it is the basis of the Hero Journey!
Hi Jean,
I’ve been sending out the script and been getting good coverage and feedback.
Hi kb,
Congratulations!
Does your story crosses the line?
Totally disagree about the characterization of “The Birds”.
One reason Hitchcock’s movies pass the test of time is because he paid attention to plotting. The basic skeleton of the plot is there in “The Birds” and if it isn’t obvious, it’s a testimony to Hitchcock’s craft that he hid the plot skeleton so well behind the celluloid.
Hi dpg,
I know this skeleton.
You should extract this skeleton from behind the celluloid and dissect it for us. Otherwise, we’ll think that you”re in contradiction with what you said above! 😉
Please note that “The Birds” is one of my favorite movies. 🙂
Just five more and it will be the most popular post! 😉
Hi Jean,
I don’t think the story crosses the line on the basis of the categories in your list. The things that I think make the script worth the journey are mostly in the details – within the scenes – in terms of character and unfolding drama. And the ending – which I learnt very early on is the most important part of the film. Some say it’s the beginning but I feel a strong beginning may please a reader but a great ending pleases the viewers.
Talking about The Birds. What gets me is Hitchcock’s film language – particularly his use of shock cuts. I’m thinking – in particular – about the two jump cuts he does in to the woman who’s eyes have been pecked out by the birds. I’m not ashamed to say I’ve copied it. We are standing on the shoulders of giants.
Jean-Marie:
Not wishing to hijack the thread of this logline to another story, may I suggest you post a logline for “The Birds” in the “Classics” section of this website? If you are so inclined, I will be happy to respond there.
Hi dpg, oh hijack the thread any which way you please. It’s just us guys swapping comments and ideas and we are playing nicely!!!
>>a strong beginning may please a reader but a great ending pleases the viewers.
Amen! And that is no not a trivial point.
Script readers are the gatekeepers and in order to get our stories past them to the people who have the real power (and money) to green light a script, we must razzle-dazzle them in the first 1st Act. (First impressions– the 1st 10 pages — are everything,/u>.)
And to sell at the box-office the story has to deliver a mesmerizing 3rd Act.
clocking this into the ‘most popular’ and just cos I gots itchy fingers:
“I.E. The Birds?:
– no hero …………………………. Melanie is the protagonist
– no flaw …………………………. Maybe a fair call – certainly not a prerequisite to a good story.
– no stake ……………………….. Huh? non violent birds suddenly start unilaterally attacking people! People are dying.
– no conflict……………………… They have to not only escape ‘the birds’ but convince people that it’s actually happening… and the mother of the protagonist’s love interest is blaming HER for it all!
– no antagonist…………………..Um… The Birds???
– no story ?”……………………. I’d have to strongly disagree that what takes place in ‘The Birds’ could not be construed as a story — it has a beginning (we meet the protagonist, her potential love interest and is attacked by a gull) — A middle — The gull attack is not a one off event, turns out ALL the birds have turned murderously psychotic… They have to protect themselves and the townspeople (some who don’t believe it…) — An End, whilst ambiguous, is an ending, as the two lovers get out of their house which has been under attack, and slowly drive out of town, surrounded by birds who DON’T attack them… and we also learn that the National Guard is getting involved as it’s not just occurring in this town but everywhere… A Story — IMO, anyway…
I agree that rules are meant to be broken, and to do so you first must understand the rule and know how to apply it — to quote Nadia Boulanger (who taught composers such as Philip Glass and Quincy Jones) “To study music we must learn the rules. To create music, we must forget them.” — I think the same could be said of film… and in the context of the world of ‘logline it!’ we’re all students…
Good Luck with your film kbfilmworks!
Tony Edwards has scored most of the points I would have made. To which I would add:
Character flaw: Melanie is a spoiled practical joker. She ended up being sued over one practical joke that misfired. And when Mitch plays a joke on her (knowing her reputation), she cannot NOT resist getting back with a practical joke of her own — the love birds (setting up the irony).
It isn’t cinema’s greatest character flaw but it is sufficient to get her in trouble, almost get her killed. It’s a flaw that motivates her to drive all the way to Bodega Bay. That is an actual location; I’ve been there; it’s 70 winding miles from San Francisco — that’s the measure of her character flaw in miles!
To be sure, the ending is atypical, unresolved in terms of what the birds will do next or finally. But when you’re Alfred Hitchcock with a long list of successful films in your bio — when you’ve demonstrated to the studios that you know how to make movies by the rules — you have the creative freedom to bend and break a few.
But when you’re nobody, you don’t have that license.
Which is why, although I study films like “The Birds”, I will never, never, NEVER use them as models for my first scripts, the ones I hope will get my foot in the door.
However, after I get my foot in the door… pecca fortiter.
… I knew she must have had one (a flaw)– off the top of my head I couldn’t recall it as it’s been so long since I’ve seen it… that will soon be amended though ;)…
And best of luck getting your foot in the door dpg… I get the feeling you deserve it.
Raise a glass, guys. Just read all 40 posts – again – and the last few seem to be out of order which I think kind of spoils it for anyone who feels curious to come check us out. A prayer to our blessed Moderator?
It’s done
Hi fellows,
I don’t think so:
-The first ten pages are the way to make your reader consider the rest up to the last ten, and if he don’t like the latter, there is no chance that your story can be seen by anybody without being rewritten.
Hi Tony Edward,
I agree with you, all these things exists,
… but not in a conventional way, and this is also the reason why Alfred Hitchcock’s logline is not conventional, I think:
Acting in concert, birds start attacking people for no apparent reason?
– The Hero is Melanie, but her hero’s journey jumps straight from the ordinary world to the ordeal, then stops starting the road back without any elixir to take back
– Her flaw is fear and helplessness…as for everyone around her
– The conventional quest, conflict, antagonist (mother of the protagonist?s love) and stake seems to be very incidental into the movie compared to what happens.
To clarify what I mean, I would like to make a comparison between THE BIRDS and JAWS, which has a strong conventional characterization:
The general settings are very similar (people on a beach are attacked by dangerous animals)
Here is JAWS logline:
A police chief, with a phobia for open water, battles a gigantic shark to protect a small beach front community, in spite of its greedy town council who demands that the beach stay open?
Who is the hero? The sheriff Brody
What is the quest? Protect the community
What is the hero flaw? He is aquaphobe (afraid by open water)
Where is the conflict? With the mayor Vaughan
What?s at stake? His job, his life
Who is the antagonist? The mayor, then the shark (which is a natural force so we cannot match any “conflict” with it)
Basically : The birds is the same as JAWS without the Sheriff Brody and the Mayor Vaughan.
Hi dpg,
Hi Tony Edard,
The flaw you’re talking about is related to the incitating incident, not to the plot. 😉
You’re right kb. I stop here.
A dysfunctional couple, inventors of a life-saving drug that can potentially save millions, is targetted by a global corporation to sabotage their work.
A dysfunctional couple, inventors of a life-saving drug that can potentially save millions, is targetted by a global corporation to sabotage their work.
maybe if you include that their child has got infected and that’s what prompted them to do it, and would have to put aside their differences by the pressure to save everyone including their child??