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RichievSingularity
Posted: September 20, 20132013-09-20T12:49:37+10:00 2013-09-20T12:49:37+10:00In: Public

After his daughter's forced to spend the week at his job and discovers he's actually cool at work, a henpecked husband, begins to stand up for himself against his, domineering wife.

King, John

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    17 Reviews

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    1. dpg Singularity
      2013-09-20T13:04:54+10:00Added an answer on September 20, 2013 at 1:04 pm

      What’s Mr. Henpecked’s objective goal? What is he struggling to accomplish at work that daughter comes to appreciate, but his wife doesn’t?

      What’s at stake if he fails at achieving his objective goal at work and/or if standing up on the homefront doesn’t work with his wife?

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    2. Richiev Singularity
      2013-09-20T13:16:13+10:00Added an answer on September 20, 2013 at 1:16 pm

      Great points dpg.

      At work Johnathan King is well respected but at home his kids talk back and his wife treats him as an atm. That is how it’s always been.

      But when his daughter is given an assignment to go to work with him his two worlds collide. His daughter sees this other side of her father and he begins to realizes how he’s being treated at home isn’t right.

      His goal: To get the same respect at home that he gets at work
      Inciting incident: His daughter given the school assignment to go to work with him.
      Bad guy: His wife who doesn’t treat him with respect and is having an affair with his brother.

      It’s kinda a middle age coming of age story.

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    3. Richiev Singularity
      2013-09-20T13:23:17+10:00Added an answer on September 20, 2013 at 1:23 pm

      Stakes: The respect of his daughter, which until she seen him at work she never had but through their week they spend together she beings to respect her father and it motivates him because he doesn’t want to lose her respect now that he has it.

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    4. dpg Singularity
      2013-09-20T13:34:13+10:00Added an answer on September 20, 2013 at 1:34 pm

      Okay, but: since the inciting incident is the daughter having to spend a day at work with him, it seems to me that the job should be more than a convenient setup to be thrown away after the 1st act.

      What makes the job so cool if that coolness doesn’t entail what he struggling to achieve? And may fail to achieve with stakes for the family — unemployment (if he’s a wage-slave), bankruptcy (if he’s self-employed).

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    5. Richiev Singularity
      2013-09-20T14:38:05+10:00Added an answer on September 20, 2013 at 2:38 pm

      His daughter spends a week with him at his work. He’s a trouble shooter and on his way to becoming VP. Everyone loves him at work, They are like “You the King” (Because his last name is King)

      There’s a slow progression of him winning over his daughter. But the more she grows to see him in this new light. the more uncomfortable he is at how he’s being treated at home.

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    6. 2013-09-21T07:22:16+10:00Added an answer on September 21, 2013 at 7:22 am

      Credibility question:

      Kids spending a work day with parents at their jobs is a common enough practice in the U.S. (like the federal government). But a whole week?

      And isn’t it voluntary? Never heard of anyone being forced to do it and can’t conceive of the reason why it would be compulsory and why would the company allow it for a whole week (Kids at work days are intrinsically low productivity days.)

      I can see her going to work with her dad for a day to get out of something even worse — school — expecting it to be the 2nd most boring experience of her life (after school) and, lo, she finds his work interesting and has an epiphany, begins to see her dad in a different light.

      Dramatic structure question:

      The chain of causality in the logline seems to be: the daughter has an epiphany which is the LCE (life changing event) that triggers the resulting action. A problem with that is that the normative rule is for the protagonist to experience the LCE and as a direct result — not indirectly through a another party experience the LCE — reacts

      So the trigger event in the daughter’s mind somehow leads to the a change of mind (and behavior) in the dad that leads to a change of mind (and behavior) in the wife. The chain of dramatic causality feels somewhat awkward and attenuated.

      One person’s opinion.

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    7. dpg Singularity
      2013-09-21T09:22:19+10:00Added an answer on September 21, 2013 at 9:22 am

      Hmm. I have questions with 2 aspects of this logline:

      Credibility of the premise:

      I can’t speak for the rest of the world, but it’s become common enough a practice for kids to accompany their parents on a day of wage-slavery in the U.S. But for a whole week? Why would a business allow such an extended disruption to normal routine and productivity?

      And as far as I know, the practice is voluntary. I’ve never heard of it being compulsory for anyone at any time for any reason.

      Nor do I see any dramatic necessity to make it compulsory. Based upon my own experience and observation of the practice, most kids go along with the practice because it enables them to get out of something even more boring than following their old man or old lady around the office — school.

      The inciting incident:

      You say that the inciting incident is “His daughter given the school assignment to go to work with him.” IMOH, the term inciting incident is bruited about in scriptwriting forums with a lack of clarity and precision as to what it actually entails. Here is my 2.5 cents worth:

      I like to think of the inciting incident as comprising 2 distinct beats: 1] The inciting event and 2]The character’s reaction to that event. The event provides the stimulus, but the response is a function of the particular person’s unique character (motivational complex, temperament, mood, etc.)

      And every person being unique, every person will respond (Beat #2) differently.

      So it seems to me that while Beat #1 is necessary to kick off the plot (trudge to work with the old man), it is not sufficient, not the whole of the inciting incident. Beat #2 , the character’s response to the event, is the sin qua non that determines the direction of the plot.

      It’s possible for the daughter to trudge long to work and not have an epiphany that changes her opinion of her father. (And my observation is that is the case with most kids: watching a parent wage-slave is b-o-r-i-n-g. They are looking at the clock hours before the parent, impatiently waiting
      for the day to end.) No epiphany, no story.

      But in your story, the inciting event (Beat #1) makes a positive impression; it triggers a transformative epiphany (Beat #2) in the daughter. Which is to say that it hooks into something lurking latently inside her head. (What is that?)

      Further, as I understand it dramatic theory and praxi, the protagonist is supposed to be the central player in the inciting incident. He/she is the one directly transformed (Beat #2) by the inciting event (Beat #1). But in the scenario in your logline, it seems as if the daughter is the central player. She is the one transformed (Beat #2) by the event (Beat #1). The father’s transformation is collateral and consequential; it occurs indirectly and later because of her transformation.

      So for me, the daughter is the most intriguing character in the logline. She’s the one who makes the plot happen — not the father. Hence, she gets my vote as the protagonist.

      Not the way you conceive of it. But, fwiw, that’s my Beat #2 (reaction) to your Beat #1 (logline). No doubt, other people will have a different Beat #2 to the very same Beat #1.

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    8. Richiev Singularity
      2013-09-21T11:54:04+10:00Added an answer on September 21, 2013 at 11:54 am

      Nice response DPG. And yes I have thought about who should be the main character that’s rather astute.
      —–
      As for the daughter being forced to go to work with her father. The school assignment is for them to spend a week at work with one of their parents. Easy enough to create.

      As for being forced, the daughter wants to go to work with her “cool” uncle who sells cars. (Even though he isn’t a parent)

      The mom and uncle are having an affair and that would interfere with their “special lunches”

      It’s the mom who puts the foot down and says “You’re going to work with your father and that’s final!” Which is the last thing she would ever want to do since she knows her boring father, goes to a boring job and works with boring people.
      —–
      About the Premise
      —–
      It’s based on a theory of mine that, who we are is who we’re with.

      Who we are at church is different that who we are at a sports bar watching a game.
      A mob boss might be a ruthless killer at work, but a loving family man at home.
      A girl might be a strait-A student at school but go crazy at rock concerts.

      So I thought, what if there was a guy who everyone loved at work, he was “The man” (Well, the King) but he gets home and he is domineered by his wife and because she doesn’t respect him his children don’t either.

      Then ‘what if’ his work life and his home life collided???

      The catalyst is his daughter coming to work with him.

      Anyway that’s my thought process, this is still in the planning stage and the lead could easily be changed.

      I really picture a Steve Carrel type (Dan in real life) as the lead.

      Thanks again for your well thought out response, you have made some great points.

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    9. wilsondownunder Penpusher
      2013-09-21T13:27:56+10:00Added an answer on September 21, 2013 at 1:27 pm

      A weeks work experience is fairly normal on my side of the world. You have to do it in grade 10. Unpaid.

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    10. dpg Singularity
      2013-09-21T13:37:58+10:00Added an answer on September 21, 2013 at 1:37 pm

      Richiev:

      I like the conceit of a two-tiered existence for the protagonist where in one context he is respected and looked up to as a leader and in another he is held in disdain and henpecked.

      (Does the daughter know about her mother’s affair?)

      >>>The catalyst is his daughter coming to work with him

      In chemistry, a catalyst is a substance that precipitates change — but is not itself changed in the process. And I think that generally holds true for dramatic characters. A catalytic character precipitates change in the protagonist but is not herself changed — or at least not changed as dramatically, OR before the protagonist is changed,OR to the degree that the protagonist is changed: the protagonist “owns” the greater and more compelling character arc.

      I’m not saying it’s a rule carved in stone, but at the moment I can think of a lot of movies that adhere to that rule — but I can’t think of any movies that are successful exceptions to that rule. Can you?

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    11. dpg Singularity
      2013-09-21T13:41:14+10:00Added an answer on September 21, 2013 at 1:41 pm

      Thanks for the info. But must the kid work for a parent?

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    12. Richiev Singularity
      2013-09-21T14:37:33+10:00Added an answer on September 21, 2013 at 2:37 pm

      That is a great question dpg, In my mind the daughter doesn’t know about the affair but I am not sold on that. If it can be more compelling the other way I would gladly go with it.

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    13. Tony Edward Samurai
      2013-09-21T16:06:08+10:00Added an answer on September 21, 2013 at 4:06 pm

      Hi Richiev,

      I think I see what you’re trying to go for — but it’s a struggle to get a grip on this with the ‘Dad’ acting as the protagonist… for this to work the only inciting incident I could foresee would be for the daughter to do something that would force the Dad to change — like threatening to run away (or something) unless he changes — (as atm, as dpg has pointed out, there really is no PHYSICAL inciting incident…) and really difficult sqeeezing this into a coherent logline. Below is just my idea using the daughter as the protag — and I know it’s not what you have in mind… but anywho:

      “When a precocious teenager discovers her mum and uncle are having an affair she attempts to transform her dweeby loser dad into cool hipster romantic to woo back her mum and keep her family together.”

      Best of luck.

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    14. Richiev Singularity
      2013-09-21T21:52:14+10:00Added an answer on September 21, 2013 at 9:52 pm

      While I agree the daughter could very well be the protagonist. (with some changes)

      My problem is, the story ends when the dad finally confronts his domineering wife and sticks up for himself. that’s the final conflict,

      Story arc: Dad just accepts his home life the way it is. A catalyst occurs and he begins to question they way he’s being treated. Final conflict; when he stands up for himself.

      Since the mom is the antagonist
      and the final conflict is between the husband and wife, it seems more natural for the father to be the lead.

      The protagonist confronting the antagonist.

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    15. dpg Singularity
      2013-09-21T22:38:27+10:00Added an answer on September 21, 2013 at 10:38 pm

      Richiev:

      I like Tony’s concept. This makes the marriage the stakes issue, the dad the stakes character. And I think it can be melded into your concept. That is, the daughter encourages and engineers his transformation so that he will stick up for himself, confront the wife.

      Which raises the question: do you conceive that the marriage is worth saving? (Which requires a transformation on the part of the wife.) Or must it be sacrificed for the sake of the father’s growth and long term happiness?

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    16. Tony Edward Samurai
      2013-09-21T23:37:38+10:00Added an answer on September 21, 2013 at 11:37 pm

      If the dad is the hero, then I think the inciting incident needs to be from his POV — atm his daughter makes a discovery — it’s ‘after something happens’ to HER… maybe have a play with ‘After something happens’ to a dominated but loyal husband and father etc…

      Anyway — best of luck again, Richiev.

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    17. Tony Edward Samurai
      2013-09-21T23:44:16+10:00Added an answer on September 21, 2013 at 11:44 pm

      …I think dpg’s bang on — from where I sit the affair ( and the marriage) is what’s on the line — It’s the biggest compelling plot element, and would juicify (wha?) the logline a plenty…

      anyways — much luck.

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