[Not a logline] Does the dark night of the soul occur in act 2, act 3 or in a secret middle place?
DanielSturmanLogliner
[Not a logline] Does the dark night of the soul occur in act 2, act 3 or in a secret middle place?
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Agree with Nir Shelter and Dkpough1. ?”Pulp Fiction” jumps around in space and time, but the basic plot elements are there. ?Tarantino did his homework; he knew how to embed dramatic structure in the narrative.
At the start of his career, Picasso ?studied the masters from other eras and painted in rather conventional styles before venturing forth into cubism. ?Vincent van Gogh studied the masters, too. ?And he even took classes in painting— Vincent van Gogh!
Mozart and Beethoven studied musical forms and techniques. ? Not because they were untalented. ?Nor were they taking refuge in a lack of confidence in their own abilities by immersing themselves in musical theory.?
I think it is necessary to study dramatic theory. ?And that includes popular paradigms (like “Save the Cat” and the “Hero’s Journey”). ?Why? ?Because, if for no other reason, the pop paradigms are the ones that producers, directors and money men are going to be familiar with (if they read any books on the craft at all) so you’ve got to be able to pitch your story in terms they understand. ?They’re going to ask about the “all is lost” and “dark night of the soul” beats– those are the very words they are going to use — and you got to be able to answer them using terminology they comprehend.
So studying ?theory and paradirms is necessary — but not sufficient. The trap some fall into is to lock onto 1 paradigm to the exclusion of all others as the Holy Grail, the alpha and omega, the complete and universally applicable formula for screenwriting. ?
And, of course, there is none. ?
But there are some general universal principles that can be abstracted from all the books ?(And I’ve read them all, ?too many, from the silly to the sublime.) ?And those principles should be used as tools, not rules.
IMHO
Craig, all anyone is saying is that any new storyteller should learn about storytelling, and by doing that they will be able to effectively twist conventions. “Pulp Fiction” wasn’t Tarantino’s first movie. And while “Reservoir Dogs” doesn’t exactly follow the usual template either, it still has the storytelling elements that are used.
And also films aren’t that old compared to other storytelling mediums, so most of the conventions in film came from already established story conventions. It might be fair to say that great plays, not screenplays, were written before the “rules”. Besides, back then stories were different. In the modern world we have so many years of stories that we can look back on that we have seen what works and what doesn’t, and thus we use those elements to create new stories.
Picasso was a great traditional painter. He learned the rules of painting before breaking them.
Daniel I say this with love and encouragement. I also know that whenever I say this I am attacked. Formula is the refuge of the scared and the untalented. You can paint by numbers or you can be Picasso, be brave, be original, be great, be Picasso.
Moses described its placement correctly.
However, it’s important to note that you shouldn’t stick to these terms in any religious way at the start. Best you structure your story the way you see fit before you take it to script. Then once you’re happy with it, use what ever paradigm or guidelines you prefer (Hero’s Journey, Blake Snyder’s beats, McKee, etc…) to analyse the story and see where you can shift and change scenes to better fit the dramatic structure.
Conventions exist for a reason – they work. You would do yourself justice by learning them and figuring out how to make them work best in your method of development.
It comes right before the big finale. Think “Team America World Police” (A masterpiece of structure)
It is right before the break into the third act. Here is a good, simple template for where the things you’re referring to go in the story structure you’re working with (as far as I can tell):?https://goodinaroom.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Blake-Snyders-Beat-Sheet.pdf
I’d suggest reading all of the late, great Blake Snyder’s ?Save the Cat?for a more detailed breakdown of this, genre and character. Hope this helps.
But, paradoxically, you have to know what the “rules” are in order to know how to break them.
Search for Vogler on the web. Or the Heroes Journey that will show you a step by step formula for writing a screenplay. That is where you’ll find it, then wave goodbye to your own creativity.
Following a formula produces the same type of script time after time. Read it, then forget it.
I would bet that’s up to you and where you feel it belongs in reference to your story. I assume you are referring to the dark night of the MC and no one else?